Photos from St. Paul, Minnesota Military Show

ww1czechlegion

Well-known member
Hi Everyone,

Here's some snapshots from the recent Military Show @ the MN State Fairgrounds, April 18th & 19th.

Sorry that the two pictures of Jerry Rehr & his helmets has the light streaks on it!

Alan


Picture of Jerry R. with helmets


Jerry Rehr's helmets for sale (Pioneer Helmet Not For Sale)


A Wurttemburg M-15 E.M. for Sale


A Prussian O.R. 2nd Guard Uhlan for Sale @ Show


My Display


My Display




My ID'd Ballon Service Observer 2nd Lt Uniform


My American Ambulance Service in Italy ID'd Uniform




 
Hi Chris,

Yes, the observer uniform is named. It was worn by a Lt. George A. Spooner, who served in the 9th Balloon Company in France. (The AAS uniform is also named/identified as well).

I'm only the 2nd collector to own it. It was aquired by a late collector friend of mine in 1966 or 1967, when he was 12 or 13 years old. I have a very "special" photo of him wearing it when he was a kid. He looks pretty cool wearing it. He passed away in 1997, and I aquired it from his estate. He never lived to learn the ID, as I discovered the name inside one of the two pairs of breeches, flipside of one of the back pockets, after aquiring it. It was the absolute last imaginable place I searched for an ID name. I about fell over upon finding the name, as you can imagine.

I'm working on trying to discover a photo of him (if one exists). Up to this point I've had no sucess. Most likely he's in the group roster photo in the Ballon Corps book, but I don't know which one of the observers he is in the photo.

Thanks,

Alan
 
Hey Alan,
has the Aviation insgnia been added at a later date? I would expect Signal Corps insignia to be on the tunic, What date did the aviation branch switch from the Signal Corps insignia to the Aviation insignia?
Gus
 
Hi Gus,

That's a great question you've asked. Here goes: normally the winged propeller was worn by Air Service personell. Early on, when the U.S. entered the war, they did wear the Signal Corps insignia instead of a winged propeller.

I'll have to go back to my old Duncan Campell book on the subject to find a specific date when they switched over to the winged propeller insig.

I do know that my balloon observor tunic is French tailored, and the collar insignia Air Service wings are a rare French manufactured pattern set that are on my tunic. To the best of my knowledge, that is the way that George A. Spooner wore them over in France.

And to open a "can of worms" on the subject, I have seen airplane pilot & airplane observor uniforms having the crossed artillery cannons on the collar. Sometimes these guys were attached to artillery units, and wore that branch of service insignia on their collars, instead of the winged propeller or signal corps insignia.

You are correct in your comments about the Signal Corps insignia, as I've seen original uniforms bearing that branch of service insignia also. I would say that both the Ballon Corps and Air Corps mainly utilized the winged propeller insignia for the most part, from what I've encountered.

I will check in my Campbell book tonite when I get home, and get back to you with with a clearer answer to your great question.

Alan
 
Hey Alan,
On closer look at the photo, the tunic has the post war occupation insignia added to the shoulder, so if the insignia was changed from signal corps to air service late in the war, this could have been done by the wearer.
Many years ago, I encountered a air service uniform with the signal corps insignia, when I asked the owner (an older collector) he told me that was the correct insignia, and that one often found them changed to fit what collectors thought they should be. That was the first grouping I had seen that had real history, and since then, everything I have seen has been an assembled uniform (often starting with a lumber battalion tunic).
The poor match of the patina of the insignia would lead me to believe that it has been changed, but the question would be, "By whom?"
Best wishes
Gus
 
Hi Gus,

The tunic has not been "assembled" by anyone other than the balloon observor George A. Spooner who wore it in France, to the best of my knowledge.

The explanation as to the different patina between the "US" insignia and the Air Service winged propeller devices is easy to understand if the facts are known about the two devices. The different patina is because the "US" devices are the seldom seen "Fire Bronze" type, and so marked on the backside. The winged propellors are actually made in France, and are a very scarce pattern, very rarely seen available on the market. Two different manufacturers of the two different devices, seperated by an ocean, and thus the difference in the patina. "Fire Bronze" devices always maintain an entirely different color patina, (almost a copper color look) as compared to the regular "bronze" coated devices which are typically a "Hershey chocolate" brownish color. I do have a single winged propeller device in my collection that is "Fire Bronze" marked, and it too looks entirely different than the patina on all my other sets and single winged propellor Air Service officer collar devices.

This uniform was aquired in Des Moines, Iowa in the summer of 1967 by one of my closest friends when he was a boy of 12 or 13 years of age. I did not get to meet him until 1981, and by that time he had aquired a wonderful Pickelhaube collection. He passed on in 1997, and I was fortunate to aquire this uniform from his estate. I have a photo of him wearing this uniform when he was a boy, and it looks quite sharp on him. He told me that he bought it at a garage sale several blocks from his home, and used his newspaper delivery money savings to purchase it. The uniform ensemble was the start of his military collection. Suprisingly there was another Balloon Observor who had resided at an address within 15-20 blocks away from where my friend had lived, who had served in the 9th Balloon Company with Spooner. I don't know for certain, but I suspect that my friend may possibly have aquired it from this other observor. But who really knows... That specific info is lost to the ages, unfortunately...

Here's info on Air Service wings/Signal Corps devices, and the dates when they transitioned from Signal Corps devices to Air Service devices:

J. Duncan Campell, who wrote the benchmark book "Aviation Badges and Insignia of the United States Army 1913-1946" states: "The mystery of this winged globe pattern (applied to the Signal Corps insignia) has been solved with the discovery of a mis-filed letter in the National Archives. The letter was sent by the Chief of Air Service, AEF, to the Commander-in-Chief, AEF, requesting authorization of a sketched insignia for "Air Service, Overseas." The request of April 18, 1918 was approved by General John J. Pershing on 27 April 1918. A second document found with this letter, dated 2 May 1918, from the Chief of the Air Service, AEF, is headed: "New Insignia for the Air Service," and includes a large drawing of the insignia. At the bottom of this memo is a notation by General Benjamin Fulois: "Notify all Sections and Stations of the Air Service."

He goes on to state: "This insignia, unknown and unheralded for almost 60 years, is most important because it is the first authorized insignia to identify the Army Air Service. It is excessively rare because few were produced in the short 80-day period before 17 July 1918 when the new Air Service wing and propeller device was adopted."

So that solves the inception date as to when the winged propeller device was adopted, 17 July 1918, when the Air Service changed from the crossed signal corps flags w/the applied winged globe device.

Hope this info helps. Thanks again Gus!

All the Best,

Alan
 
Great information Alan,
Which reminded me that the insignia on the uniform was the type with the air service insignia applied to the sgnal corps flags.
Great grouping
Gus
 
Alan

Thanks a ton for the information!! Any way I could impose on you to show a photo of the whole uniform in a new thread? I'd love to see the whole thing, detailing the cut of the uniform. The foreign made US uniforms are in a class all their own.

How about if we start a WWI Aviation thread? I have one to contribute -- possibly some of our other members do also? (England, Canada, France, Germany--I would love to see Russia or an Ottoman example if they even still exist)
 
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