Please opinion on Prussian Infantry/Fusiliers Wappen

[b.loree]

Sandy, a picture is worth 1,000 words so here are some pics of original Prussian wappen which illustrate what I have been talking about. One of our prime directives here on the forum is to prevent our fellow collectors from being ripped off especially those who are new to the Haube World.

Here we see 2 original M15 Prussian wappen...on the right note the crisp details on the feathers and lettering, this is similar quality to pre war brass M95 examples. On the left we have an example which shows a stamping from a worn out die. It lacks the detail of the other and the letters look "fuzzy". The colour of these two is also different and this is common among M15's, the one on the left is more of a feldgrau colour while the right...grey.

The reverse side also shows the differences in detail. Note also the solder on the left is painted so we know....soldered then painted. On the right, 100 years of oxidization on the solder. Next a cupro aluminium and brass examples.

On the left, the typical brass wappen and on the right an example of the cupro/aluminium plate which is almost a dark orange colour. I could be wrong on this description...it could also be that this wappen has just maintained it's exceptional gilt finish. :?

The reverse showing crisp details and solder with 100 years of oxidization. Note how all of these original loops are totally different from the galvano copy on Jaap's wappen.

Last, a galvano copy of an Anhalt M95 wappen. Look at all that copper! I got burned with this on German Ebay, I keep it as a reminder. :x

Very similar to Jaap's.

 

[Jaap Verduijn]

Good stuff, Brian! Good information! :thumb up:

 

[Sandmann]

Thank you very much Brian, I safed this Thread in ibooks. Very informative and good examples for comparison.

 

[Lars13]

Brian,

Thank you for those comparison pics; very nice.

Do you know of any reference that indicates when the change from tombak to cupro-aluminium for the Wappen occurred? When I look at the oxidized parts of the bare metal (for example on the orb ) they look very similar on both Wappen, only the "gilt" wash looks different.

I would like to challenge the cupro-aluminium Wappen, with the following arguments:

• - 1903 Bekleidungsordnung still specifies Tombak for the Wappen
  - Tombak was (is?) used a lot as imitation gold as it can look very similar to gold, so any of the gold-looking Wappen can be made of Tombak; the reddish Tombak only occurs at very high copper content
  - Kraus only mentions Tombak in relation to the Wappen, and nothing on cupro-aluminium Wappen in his book about German field-grey uniforms
  - The oxidized parts look very similar on both Wappen

Of course I don't mind being proved incorrect , but would appreciate more information.

Best regards,

Lars

 

[Leone]

oxidization on the solder is more easier to make than it seems.

 

[b.loree]

Yes Leone, I am aware of that method as well. However, there are also certain characteristics of "old original" soldering that can help a collector. Lars, I am very willing to be corrected on my cupro/aluminum description, I am no metallurgist. It could be tombac, I think the whole issue came out of Larcade's book. I will go back and check.

 

[aicusv]

This is some truly good information, thank you. The tale being told here gives clues to why I'm reluctant to purchase from eBay. It is some times just too hard to see details in a photo. Particularly with old eyes.