Prussian Officers M1915 Tunic with MG Qualification Badge. Shoulder boards now ID'd for Foot Artillerie Rgt 8.

tony v

Active member
Hello,

Tunic in mint condition in a field grey material (almost slate grey) in the 1915 pattern with top pockets as favoured by officers.
20211223_182748.jpg20211223_182755.jpg20211223_182759.jpg20211223_182806.jpg20211223_182812.jpg20211223_182835.jpg20211223_182840.jpg20211223_182851.jpg
£2400 plus postage to you. Extra pictures available on expression of interest.

Would prefer to trade though.....looking for Officers Pickelhaube, Baden, Hesse or Prussian with bandu....

cheers Tony.
 
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KAGGR#1

Well-known member
Question ;
Did officers qualify for shooting prizes and M G Qualification badges ?
I always assumed that the enlisted men did all the shooting ?
Thanks
Steve
 

tony v

Active member
good question...........came with the tunic so I kept it on.........be interested to know if they did or not. cheers Tony.
 

KAGGR#1

Well-known member
I am just asking .I don't know
I am hoping for an answer.
All the Kaiser prizes that I have seen on uniforms
were for enlisted men
Steve
 

KAGGR#1

Well-known member
Is that a Prussian unit ?
For some reason my computer will not allow me to
click on the images and enlarge them .
Thanks
Steve
 

tony v

Active member
Hi Steve, I don't know either but can't see the Officer manning the gun either, perhaps....

if I was to embellish the description I might come up with a storm trooper/ assault specialist officers tunic as used in March 1918 offensive..............

but I think it's probably a collector add on.

At least they put an original on it. I am just the current custodian looking to enhance my pickelhaubes tally via the sale or trade of my tunics.

It is a Prussian tunic btw for IR 8.

cheers Tony
 

KAGGR#1

Well-known member
Tony ;
Tell me about Prussian I R 8 ?
Do you think that it is a reserve Grenadier Regt 8 ?
number 8 but not a cypher ?
I think M G A 8 was a Saxon unit ?
Tell me more
Thanks
Steve
 

tony v

Active member
Hi Steve,

Here's my take on the tunic and the possible regiment it's owner was assigned too.

Firstly there is no providence with this item so it's purely conjecture on my behalf.

The tunic came to me as is I have not added or taken away anything, it is a far as I can deduce a privately made tunic in the post 1915 style and fits all the stipulated "size and style" requirements of the uniform regulations with the exception of the top pockets. This feature with the lack of unit acceptance stamps leads to the assumption it's for an Officer.

The Officer Boards are Prussian flecked and are the correct pattern for the tunic as a late war garment, they even measure 4.5 cm exactly as per regs. When you look at the stitching on the shoulders does not indicate that the boards have been added since the tunic was made and when you move the button the fading of the board compared to the colour under the button indicates they have been on there long enough.

The number 8 is a sticking point.. as you rightly say the Grenadier RGT would have the cypher monogram not a number, also why brass and not subdued number ? There has only been one number or attachment to them and no other pin holes are present. Don't think its a reserve unit but not got enough facts to discount it yet. The other thing is MGK were prevalent in a lot of infantry units at this late stage so it can't be an abteilung number in my opinion.

The question is then, where the numbers just added later to spice up the tunic ? this always a possibility as the indent and fading are not as pronounced as the button ones.

Second theory is it may have been put to use post war by the owner as part of the new Army. Again only conjecture but the condition of the tunic implies that the owner only used it lightly, maybe he was KIA or it was a second tunic ? If he was moved to the Provisional Reichswher post 1919 then RGt8 was a Prussian unit ( interestingly Komp1 was formed from Grenadier RGt 8 of the old Army) and the MG qual badge may well have been worn if he was in the MGK kompany as I understand Officers may have also been trained with the other ranks in using the heavy weapons so why not wear the badge.

I will attach further pictures below of the tunic and welcome other opinions and thoughts positive or negative either way.

cheers Tony
 

KAGGR#1

Well-known member
Thanks for all of your input and the
addition photos .
I am a shoulder strap collector
so I am always trying to lead about
any shoulder strap that I have not seen before .
The straps on your tunic sure look like they have been there
for some time .

Here are my Saxon M G A 8 officers shoulder straps .
Also to the left we see a strap almost like yours except the
# 8 is subdued.
I will go into my collection room and see if I have a note under the strap
as to what it is .If I find anything I will report back to you.
Steve
M G Prize Saxon.JPG
Also a Saxon M G King's Prize
SteveSaxon MGA 8.JPG
 

ccj

Well-known member
I’ve seen at least 1 period photo of officer wearing this badge. It’s rare and unusual. I was wonder why myself. Was he enlisted man promoted to officer or would an office receive the badge if a certain percentage of men in his unit were awarded the badge? Idk
 

tony v

Active member
Glad you have seen a photo Charles, that's re-assuring. be interesting to know if they were a qualification Officers could earn.
 

Tony without Kaiser

Departed
Staff member
Tony and everyone else, if you can tear your eyes off the MG badge, those shoulder boards are silver wire pre war Waffenrock boards for Rheinisches Fußartillerie-Regt. Nr.8 (Metz) XVI Armee Korps. They were used on the M07/10 Feldrock until the M15 was introduced. So all good so far. The M15 boards are subdued grey with white/black chevrons as you can see on the left board in posting #11. If the MG badge is original to the tunic, then Freikorps use is possible.
 

tony v

Active member
I should put up the price by 1000 dollars and claim it's Freikorps !
Seriously though,

Tony thank you for the input and insight......sometimes the facts are staring you in the face and maybe the MG badge is a red herring....I do like the curved ball this hobby throws at ya.....
 
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