Prussian Zahlmeister Pickelhaube

T

Tomitchoe

New member
Hi Guys... I bought my very first Pickelhaube Yesterday. I believe its a private Purchase Model for a Prussian Paymaster. Can annyone confirm this ? Thanks.

Tom

http://img7.picsplace.to/img7/5/P1010007_001.JPG

http://img7.picsplace.to/img7/5/P1010009_003.JPG

http://img7.picsplace.to/img7/5/P1010011_002.JPG

http://img7.picsplace.to/img7/5/P1010014.JPG

http://img7.picsplace.to/img7/5/P1010019_000.JPG
 
Tom- Nice first helmet!

Appears to be a paymaster helmet like you said, not sure on the private purchase part, any chance of seeing the inside of the helmet, that would help!

Thanks

James
 
I thought it was a private purchase because of these 3 facts:

First the chinscale mount is secured with a rosette with two split sprongs inside the helmet
Second the rear spine has no incorpaerated vent
and my third reason is a stamp inside the helmet that made me believe it:
Julius Jansen, 1915, Strassburg

Just the liner makes me doubt it...

http://img7.picsplace.to/img7/5/P1010029_000.JPG

http://img5.picsplace.to/img5/17/P1010021.JPG


Greetz
Tom
 
None of these three criteria would define a "private purchase" helmet Tom. Jansen was a major maker of EM helmets and from the inside this one is typically an EM helmet... yet all metal fittings are of officer type...
Bruno
 
Tom,

Sorry it took me so long to answer this one. Yes, it looks to be a zahlmeister of some sort. Based on its round spike base it is more modern than some. Glenn and I were working an article on this issue but I was unable to determine the anomalies in changes to these helmets that happened between 1890 and 1910. I do not know where the helmets came from, but I do not believe they were issued. I have seen many zahlmeister helmets that were all officer on the outside with a leather liner on the inside. These have no unit marks.

The entire Beamte issue is skirted in almost all the references. Only Stubbs, starting on page 463 addresses the issue. His coverage is not wonderful, but it is the best there is. It is a great spike to have! I have been trying to trade/and buy one from a friend of mine for years now.
 
joerookery said:
//I do not know where the helmets came from, but I do not believe they were issued. I have seen many zahlmeister helmets that were all officer on the outside with a leather liner on the inside.//
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I am probably going to regret wading in here as I know nothing about these..........

I can find no logical explanation for an issue-pattern liner in a helmet with officer fittings. I am skeptical of any helmet like this.

I have always wondered about the Unterzahlmeister rank which was the probationary rank for NCOs, until they were appointed as Zahlmeister. What did those look like?
 
I am probably going to regret wading in here as I know nothing about these..........
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I'm the not sure anyone knows anything about these. However, I won't ramble on about magnetism, so you can tell Chas to stop rolling his eyes.

I can find no logical explanation for an issue-pattern liner in a helmet with officer fittings. I am skeptical of any helmet like this.
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pg9beamte.jpg

leatherliner.jpg

The evidence I have from the Neumann catalog is far from perfect. You could actually get a level 3 helmet as a Beamte. The second picture shows leather liners in Diensthelmes long after the square tipped leather liners were used as the primary private purchase methodology. This does not say square or round. While clearly the officer level zahlmeister purchased a helmet, I am not sure what happened with the former NCOs.

I never did figure out when round bases became prevalent and cruciform bases went away in these helmets.

There were a great deal of these guys. 1 zahlmeister and unterzahlmeister per infantry battalion. One Oberzahlmeister at the regiment level. There were less for cavalry and artillery but still for the infantry alone 879 zahlmeisters and 665 unterzahlmeisters.

Zahlmester and Oberzahlmeister wore infantry pattern helmets with entirely silver fittings. The chinscales were convex. The crown on the wappen was voided. They had pearl rings, star brads, and a rounded spike. Officer cockades of 55mm were used. The spike did not unscrew as no trichter was allowed. They were what you would consider officer pattern with the “Mitt Gott für Koenig und Vaterland” bandeau.
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From 15/5/1904 there was a small eagle called a Beamtenadler placed in gilt color under the FR of the eagle. This was a perfect miniature eagle for a standard Beamte wappen with an FR on the chest but no bandeau.

Unterzahlmeister wore the identical helmet but with dome studs, no Beamte adler, and enlisted 48mm cockades. All Zahlmeister helmets should have been of the private purchase variety however issue type liners have been found in both types of zahlmeister helmets..
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This quote is part of some correspondence between Glenn and I.

NCOs could, after completing 12 years of service, apply for training for the career of a Zahlmeister. Most armies the world over have programmes such as these for long-serving non-commisioned soldiers. If accepted and having passed appropriate courses, and having gone through a probationary period as "Unterzahlmeister", these former NCOs would then finally be appointed ("bestallt") as Zahlmeister, an appointemt as an official and not as a soldier, comparable in rank to a "Leutnant". In this, they would be ranked in the career group of the "gehobener mittlerer Dienst", which spannned the comparable military ranks of Leutnant - Hauptmann/Rittmeister, their designation as officals being (in descending order) Stabs-/ Ober-/ Zahlmeister. Equivalent rank of captain would be as far as they could get in Imperial and Weimar times, as the next senior career group for officials, the Höherer Dienst, started with the equivalent rank of major, and the Höherer Dienst required a university degree, something probably no former NCO who started out in the Reichsheer had.
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