Question about German Prussian M1867 metal Cuirassier cavalry helmet, RARE! on eBay

[JohnS3rd]

Hello Folks,
Cruising about ePay/eBay, I saw the German Prussian M1867 metal Cuirassier cavalry helmet, RARE! and wanted to know what the Subject Matter Experts, SME's, think about the center device "Gott Mitt Uns" on the Adler?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193887871461

To these old and untrained eyes, :| the helmet looks original overall, but the device is not something I could find on Tony's site :? or general search. :-k

Thanks in advance for your observations about the helmet. I have attached some desktop shots of it for future FNGs, such as myself.
Best regards,
John






PS I sent the owner a message asking for pictures of the back of the Adler, now the device is attached to the Adler and how the Adler is attached to the helmet.

 

[JohnS3rd]

I received a reply from the seller: "I've attached a photo of the reverse of the plate. I'm pretty sure it's not the correct plate for the helmet, but it is an original period one. The plate was just attached with some bailing wire, and the attachments are missing."
Here are the photos he sent of the helmet.




It looks pretty much original but I'm still puzzled about the "Gott Mit Uns" device and star behind it. I have seen the device and star somewhere before but am clueless as to what it was associated with when I saw the set up.
Best regards,
John

 

[JohnS3rd]

Well, I found the example of the badge: the star with "Got Mit Uns" is a German badge from WWI and earlier titled "Prussian Order of the Crown 1st Class Breast Star" and was not an original part of the helmet. I'm attaching pictures of the reproduction badge from unionmilitaria.net. So I think I have come up with my own answer. So, the helmet is put-together at some time in the past, but by who. A German looking to sell something to a GI, a veteran, the dealer, or someone unknown. :-k The helmet cannot talk :-$ so we may never know.
Best regards,
John

 

[b.loree]

Yes John....an old survivor who has had some non original bits added on over 100+ years! A kurassier helmet with a Dragoon/JzP officer wappen on it, not correct. That wappen might have had the Oldenburg shield on it at one time, it is very similar to my DR 19 officer helmet.

 

[911car]

John,
This helmet appears to be a 1867 model, as you correctly noticed, for a Garde du Corps or Garde Kurassier. You can tell from the slits in the shell for front plate attachment. It is actually a GK helmet, as shown by the stamp on the "lobster tail".
Condition is not great but these metal shells can be restored relatively easily. Front plates can be found too, with luck, but for many collectors (including me), absence of the original plate makes it a no no. Absence of the liner should be also of concern.

 

[911car]

Here is the real thing.

 

[JohnS3rd]

Hi Bruno and Brian,
Thanks for your feedback. I have no intention of going after it nor anything else, for the time being, LOL. :wink: I have too many projects in the fire, so to speak. I just wanted to get folks' (SMEs) opinions on it, as I work to educate myself on helmets.
The helmet has what is left of a liner.




Can someone explain the marking of "GKR 4E" on the back of the lobster tail? :? Is it Garde Kuerassier Regiment No.4? If so what would the E represent? :-k



Thanks
John

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

E = Eskadron (Squadron)

https://www.kaisersbunker.com/dunkelblau/helmets/dbh25.htm

 

[JohnS3rd]

Tony,
Thank you very much for the information. So the helmet was other ranks/ enlisted Garde Kuerassier Regiment No.4 Eskdron (Squadron). I appreciate the time taken to reply and provide a link to your site.
Best regards,
John