Rear spine sizes

aicusv

aicusv

Well-known member
It is my under standing that the rear spine (Hinterscheine) for issued helmets came in three sizes. For lack of a better way to denote the sizes, I'll just call them small, medium, and large. Small would be used on a size 52 helmet and the large on a size 60, but does anyone have any idea what the range of helmet sizes they fit? In other words, small fits size 52 to 5x, medium size xx to xx, large size xx to 60. Mathematically it should work out as; small 52 - 54, med. 55 - 57, large 58 - 60.

Are my assumptions correct? Where there 3 sizes of spine and the size matches?
Thanks
 
Are my assumptions correct
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I don't think so. That may or may not be true for certain types of issue helmets, however, we have seen private purchase ones that have the exact size stamped on them.
 
I am (at this point) only talking about issued helmets. I'm not even sure where I came up with the idea about 3 spine sizes.
I have a size 60 model 1915 helmet that needs a spine and I'm trying to figure out if I can get one off a parts helm.
 
Rear spines on issue M95 helmets ase usually marked as to size with the number 1, 2 or 3. The number is located on the forward tab. When the helmet is assembled the number is not visible as the tab in under the spike base. It is unknown if all manufacturers marked their rear spines as to size.

Reservist1

 
Hey that is something i did not know you can find a number on those things
well i did not try assemble or disassemble a helmet yet so i couldn't know that
but nonetheless great to know.
thanks

Jonas
 
This discussion, caused me to look in my spine parts drawer.....out of 12 brass M 95 one's, three are stamped with numbers on the tang....2, #3's and one #2. All of these have the cut off squared end as already shown. I have 11, M15 spines and only one of these is stamped "5" and it has the typical rounded tang. In my experience, most spines are not number stamped and most have the rounded tang on the end. In conclusion, I do not believe there was any spine size number system for most of the helmet manufacturers.
 
b.loree said:
This discussion, caused me to look in my spine parts drawer.....out of 12 brass M 95 one's, three are stamped with numbers on the tang....2, #3's and one #2. All of these have the cut off squared end as already shown. I have 11, M15 spines and only one of these is stamped "5" and it has the typical rounded tang. In my experience, most spines are not number stamped and most have the rounded tang on the end. In conclusion, I do not believe there was any spine size number system for most of the helmet manufacturers.
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Well, that being the case, then it might be reasonable to conclude that spines were shipped in packaging (boxes, envelopes, etc) of a single size in the container for manufacturers and even depots? Or maybe the stamping was done by one or two manufacturers only? It's not unreasonable to think that the people who assembled helmets either did sizes in lots, or 'developed an eye' and could tell by helmet size (or curve of the shell) what size spine to use.

:D Ron
 
Good comment Ron, I think it makes sense, that as we do today, at least thinking about car manufacturing.... the metal bits were produced by a subcontractor who had the casting, foundry, metal lathes....whatever was necessary to produce the metal parts and that these plants, were probably in close proximity to the actual "leather" manufacturing part whose company names we see stamped on our hauben. Of course, they could have been shipped by rail as well. We have pics of them getting ready to bake the shells in ovens and we have one showing assembly in a well lit room. I think it makes sens that the leather part of production would have been done "in house" and that the metal parts would have been sent in by other manufacturers in the metals industry.
 
b.loree said:
Good comment Ron, I think it makes sense, that as we do today, at least thinking about car manufacturing.... the metal bits were produced by a subcontractor who had the casting, foundry, metal lathes....whatever was necessary to produce the metal parts and that these plants, were probably in close proximity to the actual "leather" manufacturing part whose company names we see stamped on our hauben. Of course, they could have been shipped by rail as well. We have pics of them getting ready to bake the shells in ovens and we have one showing assembly in a well lit room. I think it makes sens that the leather part of production would have been done "in house" and that the metal parts would have been sent in by other manufacturers in the metals industry.
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Yes, I don't know how much work they did 'in house', but I think if they did the stamping, they'd have show that in their catalogs and such. It's a pretty major operation and I don't think a leather industry that also did the stamping would leave it out of their photos to show off their expertise.
Just my 2 cents.

:D Ron
 
One last thing I would like to mention which is slightly off topic.....how hot these helmets would have been to wear. I like to stitch in natural light on a bright sunny day outside. These hats heat up in a very short time, the black finish absorbs heat, I have to be careful. If you were wearing one of the older models, you would also be dealing with the weight of the helme. I guess the cloth uberzug might have reflected more heat but even so, I can not imagine how hot things got during that first August when they kicked the Schlieffen Plan into action. No wonder they ran out of steam and the plan failed.
 
b.loree said:
One last thing I would like to mention which is slightly off topic.....how hot these helmets would have been to wear. I like to stitch in natural light on a bright sunny day outside. These hats heat up in a very short time, the black finish absorbs heat, I have to be careful. If you were wearing one of the older models, you would also be dealing with the weight of the helme. I guess the cloth uberzug might have reflected more heat but even so, I can not imagine how hot things got during that first August when they kicked the Schlieffen Plan into action. No wonder they ran out of steam and the plan failed.
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The new ones ain't too cool!
Semper Fi
John :)
 
I recently picked up a collection of helmet parts (someone trying to restore helmets unsuccessfully). Among the parts were two rear spines for model 1915 helmets, marked to size. The size was stamped on the tab the folds round the bottom of the rear visor, between the vent hole and the the hole for the stud. One is marked "4" and the other is a "5".
If I can get the marks to come out in a photo I'll post them.
 
Got some photos, not the best---
4_zpse7t0c158.jpg

5_zps0ci9p0x7.jpg


Noticed in the photo, what I took as a "5" looks more like a "3". This spine is larger than the one marked "4"

If anyone has sized marked spines on sized marked helmets, please let me know what size spine is one what size helmet. Maybe we can make up a list of matching spine sizes to helmet sizes.
 
Well....as usual we see yet another anomaly here in the haube world. I have never seen a size stamping on the tang of the rear visor end of the spine and obviously, I have looked at hundreds over the years. I think that we have to step back here and think logically....back then the korps or whoever had contact with the manufacturers, knew what size was most common and the bulk of the order would be placed to fit that head size. However, there were also the 2 extremes.....52cm and 60cm which may have been purchased in very limited numbers. The mind boggles at the various combinations of hole placements in the shell and where split brads were soldered on to the spine. Obviously, there would have been a "range" of same size spines that would fit different sized helmets. For example...a spine for a 54cm would also fit a 52cm....will we ever know for certain? I doubt it and of course there is the shrinkage factor, these helmets are at least 100yrs old and have shrunk over time due to humidity conditions which throws "sizing" out the window. In my experience, stamped sizes on any part of the rear spine are not the norm/normal, most companies did not bother to do it. Certain companies did have a sizing system stamped on their fittings but most did not. The spine is the only fitting on the pickelhaube where we occasionally see these stamped numbers indicating size.
 
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