Reich & Prussian Kokarden

[Freikorps1919]

Are any of these Kokarden authentic? The main one that I am questioning is #4 especially. I am pretty sure #2 is authentic because it came from a shell that was recovered from a house fire and it was stuck to the chinstrap post and chinstrap buckle and the side of the charred leather shell and was covered in molten/charred debris that had to be removed just to get the kokarden off. #3 also looks decent because of the paint finish and how it is aging and has rust forming.
Any feedback on any of the kokarden is greatly appreciated.

 

[SkipperJohn]

My guess is that they are all good. After reading some of the recent input on Kokarden, I realize that I may have been fooled in the past, but I also believe that the guidelines illustrated in some of those recent posts may be a little too rigid.
We have to realize that hundreds of companies stamped out millions of these Kokarden. The quality control, though probably very good, could not have been perfect in those days. Also, these companies probably didn't share one set of dies to make sure all Kokarden matched perfectly. Kokarden were likely not minted to the same specifications as coins.
I have seen many variations in Kokarden as posted here: https://www.pickelhaubes.com/xf/threads/the-prussian-kokarde.15372/ . I haven't questioned the authenticity of these, especially since I know the source of many/most of them.
We constantly need to ask ourselves whether we are being fed facts or opinions. Having one source, one opinion, with no additional proof or research can be worse than having no information at all.

John

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Totally agree with John, IMO they all appear to be good.

James

 

[Lars13]

If the red looks anything like in the picture then I would also suspect #4 is a repro; the original red is more orangy

Lars

 

[Freikorps1919]

If the red looks anything like in the picture then I would also suspect #4 is a repro; the original red is more orangy

Lars

Here is a shot of it with and without flash

 

[Freikorps1919]

Here is a shot of it with and without flash

ALSO, it the paint supposed to be raised up on the white ring almost like epoxy or is it supposed to be flat?

 

[SkipperJohn]

If the red looks anything like in the picture then I would also suspect #4 is a repro; the original red is more orangy

Lars

Not necessarily.

John

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

again, have to agree with John. Have plenty of originals that are reddish.....

 

[coert65]

In those day's, they did not have the RAL color standard, it was different shades. I have several helmets, some red's are the same, but some are lighter, or darker in color. You see this also in the green color of Saxon kokarden, some lighter than others.
I agree with John too, regarding colors, but also authenticity of kokarden.

 

[Lars13]

Here is a shot of it with and without flash

With flash it looks much better the white looks repainted though

they did not have the RAL color standard

True, but at the same time they had good control over the colours. My own collection is too small and the provenance too uncertain to provide any proof, but I just had a look through the picture book "Die deutsche Armee im ersten Weltkrieg" by Kraus, and none of the OR M91 Reichskokarden or OR Mütze Reichskokarden look anything else than orangy red, and this includes a couple of "Probe" / "Muster" too. As far as I remember the "salesman" cards of Kokarden that have been shown here over the years were all orangy red too

 

[SkipperJohn]

ALSO, it the paint supposed to be raised up on the white ring almost like epoxy or is it supposed to be flat?

I have seen both.

John

 

[Sandmann]

For me the RK could be original. But could you please post a sharp picture of the back without flashlight too? Because of the thick color it is hard to say.