Scarce saxon

chinstrap

chinstrap

Active member
I have been lucky enough to be able to buy this very scarce Saxon helmet from a fellow member of the forum. It has all the characteristics of Leib-Grenadier-Regiment no 100 , but, I believe, could also be to Pioneer Battalion 12. All fittings, apart from the central device, in brass, are in white metal, in particular the flat chinscales, and the spike unscrews. It is in excellent condition, and I have given it a clean as well. Note the contemporary fix, with tiny rivets fastening the front visor trim tight to the visor. No markings, apart from the size, which is 58.

Patrick

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Congratulations on a very nice Saxe Haube. JR 100 wore a black parade trichter as did PB 12 so unfortunately, I do not see any way of specifically nailing this down/identifying it. Extremely rare to have the proper M91 neusilber flat chin scales on this helmet. :thumb up:
 
Congratulations to your Helmet. I haven’t seen one with those rivets before. Really interesting :bravo:
 
It´s a LGR100 helmet (white chinscales).

PB12 and PB22 had gilt chinscales.

Philippe
:wink:
 
Although I’ve owned the helmet for a few months I’ve only just noticed a name inside. Stamped in ink on the inside of the front is the name ‘Quenzel’. The hat size 58 is stamped just below it, so I imagine it is the name of the manufacturer. Does anybody know of a manufacturer by this name? If it isn’t that, but the name of the soldier it might be possible for somebody who is able to do these things to find out if the helmet is to the 100th Regiment or to a pioneer unit. The flat white chinscales were worn by Saxon pioneers as well as 100th. I’d be grateful for any information or ideas.
Patrick
 
I wish we could come to a decision on this. I thought we answered the question of gilt chinscales on Saxon helmets in this post:

Here's Another Oddly Configured Pionier Pickelhaube

I have had this privately purchased Sachsen Pionier Pickelhaube for several years. It is not unit marked but it had to come from Sachsen Pionier Battalion Nr. 12 (Pima), or Sachsen Pioneer Battalion Nr. 22 (Riesa): The helmet is a standard private purchase type with an officer grade liner...
www.pickelhaubes.com www.pickelhaubes.com
It was agreed that PB12 and PB22 wore silver chinscales.

John
 
SkipperJohn said:
I wish we could come to a decision on this. I thought we answered the question of gilt chinscales on Saxon helmets in this post:

Here's Another Oddly Configured Pionier Pickelhaube

I have had this privately purchased Sachsen Pionier Pickelhaube for several years. It is not unit marked but it had to come from Sachsen Pionier Battalion Nr. 12 (Pima), or Sachsen Pioneer Battalion Nr. 22 (Riesa): The helmet is a standard private purchase type with an officer grade liner...
www.pickelhaubes.com www.pickelhaubes.com
It was agreed that PB12 and PB22 wore silver chinscales.

John
Click to expand...
I must agree now, after reading the other post again. Yes, the only exceptions with gilt chinscales on white saxon helmets can be found in the 7. and 8. saxon Companies of the ER2. So we must admit that both officers helmets of the LGR100 and PB12 / PB22 have worn white chinscales.
However it is very curious / anormal to observe white chinscales on EM M95 helmets, as they should wear the leather chinstrap since 1891. Only the 8 Garde Regimenter and the 12 line Grenadier Regimenter were allowed to wear chinscales on EM helmets for guards or parade (and of course all officers).
So we must admit that in this case, the white chinscales could be a late replacement :unsure:

Philippe
;)
 
Philippe,

Larcade p.92, says that the king in 1893 gave the 100th a helmet with white metal fittings, except for a tombac central device ( silvered fittings with a gilt device for officers) and the regiment retained flat white metal chinscales, ‘sauf pour la tenue de campagne’ which I understand to mean that, except for officers, they wore the leather chinstrap when in battle dress or on field service. In other words, in British terms, the white metal chinscales formed part of their dress uniform.

This is my understanding of the French text! Happy to be corrected.

Patrick
 
Patrick,
I barely have a working knowledge of English, LOL, so I went to google, which translates "sauf pour la tenue de champagne" from French to English as follows "except for campaign dress." So, I would assume that ORs or EMs wore the metal chinscales in garrison, walking-out, etc., and would use leather chinstraps for field training and military operations in war. I have pasted the link here for you and others to review. I am sure one of our more learned friends up north or in Europe can enlighten us about the exact meaning of the term in question.

Google Translate

Google's service, offered free of charge, instantly translates words, phrases, and web pages between English and over 100 other languages.
translate.google.co.uk translate.google.co.uk

You have a reat looking helmet, and thank you for sharing pictures on this forum.
John
 
Bonsoir,
En effet, dans la grande majorité, les Leib-Regiments sont blancs garnis de pointe dévissable pour le Haarbusch. Le Pionier-
Les régiments en ont, la jugulaire à écailles jaunes ou les garnitures blanches également pour la jugulaire en cuir M91. Point fixe, voiture pas de Haarbusch et d'étoiles jaunes pour les officiers.
Chez les Saxons, c'est spécial:
Les casques du 100LGR et des PB 12 et 22 sont identiques, en ce qui concerne les troupes.
Pour les officiers, une seule différence, des étoiles blanches (argent) pour le Leib-Rgt et jaune (ou) pour les pionniers.
Pour les troupes, seul le marquage régimentaire peut faire la différence.

Beau casque.(y)👏
 
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