Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
...war was war in those days." Or so says General Burroughs in The Four Feathers.
Srjt. Chas. Weight.
1st Dragn. Gds.
Srjt. Chas. Weight.
1st Dragn. Gds.
"Take the Crimea...
- Thread starter Lost Skeleton
- Start date
reservist1
Member
Chas: This and the Distinguished Service Mdal are very impressive. I must confess that my knowledge of British decorations is just about nil.
Reservist1
Reservist1
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Hi R1:
My interest is largely the consequence of my Anglo-Irish heritage. The Crimea Medal is a recent addition to the fold, and I was fortunate in acquiring one with an original ribbon. Pictures simply don't do it justice.
British medals are extremely well documented, and references like Medal Yearbook provide full color pictures of every British and Commonwealth medal in existence, ranked by priority, with complete descriptions.
http://tokenpublishing.com/shop.asp?cid=18
If only a comparable English language reference for Imperial German awards existed, we would understand everything there is to know about Orders like the Rote Adler.
Sergeant Weight's medal is officially impressed:
Chas.
My interest is largely the consequence of my Anglo-Irish heritage. The Crimea Medal is a recent addition to the fold, and I was fortunate in acquiring one with an original ribbon. Pictures simply don't do it justice.
British medals are extremely well documented, and references like Medal Yearbook provide full color pictures of every British and Commonwealth medal in existence, ranked by priority, with complete descriptions.
http://tokenpublishing.com/shop.asp?cid=18
If only a comparable English language reference for Imperial German awards existed, we would understand everything there is to know about Orders like the Rote Adler.
Sergeant Weight's medal is officially impressed:
Chas.
reservist1
Member
Chas: Thanks for the information on British decorations. As for an English language reference on the Red Eagle Order, do you have Neal O'Connor's references on Aviation Awards of Imperial Germany in world War I? Volume 2, The Aviation Awards of the Kingdom of Prussia, contains about the best information available, in English, on the Red Eagle. The reference does not answer all the questions but sure gos a long way. If you are not familiar with the above reference, there are a total of 7 volumes covering all the German states and Free Cities. In addition to Aviation related information each volume has superb sections on the awards of the different states. Unfortunately the only volume still in print is #7.
Reservist1
Mike Huxley
New member
Chas,
Here you go again .. getting me all excited and up tight. I do collect British awards, but at the moment I restrict myself to WWI groups awarded to the "Cameron Highlanders" and the "23rd Bat London Regiment".
The reason for these two. My Grandfather was with the 23rd London and lost his leg during the 1918 March German offensive. My wife's Great Uncle was with the 7th Cameron Highlanders at the battle of Loos and was involved in the attack on "Hill 70" where only 73 members of the 7th returned for muster the following day. He was wounded on the Somme but survived to become the last remaining member of the Cameron Highlanders that suvived the war. He died at the age of 104, in 2000.
I have both my Grandfathers and Great Uncles medals. Great Uncle was awarded the Legion of Honour by france in 1997 and it is attached to his bar. I will get a picture of it to post here.
Trouble is, I can't afford to collect everything :-(
Here you go again .. getting me all excited and up tight. I do collect British awards, but at the moment I restrict myself to WWI groups awarded to the "Cameron Highlanders" and the "23rd Bat London Regiment".
The reason for these two. My Grandfather was with the 23rd London and lost his leg during the 1918 March German offensive. My wife's Great Uncle was with the 7th Cameron Highlanders at the battle of Loos and was involved in the attack on "Hill 70" where only 73 members of the 7th returned for muster the following day. He was wounded on the Somme but survived to become the last remaining member of the Cameron Highlanders that suvived the war. He died at the age of 104, in 2000.
I have both my Grandfathers and Great Uncles medals. Great Uncle was awarded the Legion of Honour by france in 1997 and it is attached to his bar. I will get a picture of it to post here.
Trouble is, I can't afford to collect everything :-(
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Hi Mike:
Thank you for sharing family history. Wow, 104 is quite a lifetime. I'm looking forward to the pictures. I wonder if we should start a new thread dedicated to the medals of our relations.
Chas.
Thank you for sharing family history. Wow, 104 is quite a lifetime. I'm looking forward to the pictures. I wonder if we should start a new thread dedicated to the medals of our relations.
Chas.
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Hi R1:reservist1 said:
I have a good friend who is an aviation enthusiast, and he has the first two volumes by O'Connor (which I have borrowed on occasion). Interestingly, it was Neal O'Connor and Ed Ferko who acquired the Sängerflieger, Carl Holler's photo albums and personal papers. Some of the collection has since found its way back to Otto.
Chas.
Mike Huxley
New member
Lost Skeleton said:
Hi R1,
I have all of Neal O'Connor's books except Vol 1; Bavaria and Vol 5; Oldenburg, (still looking out for a copy of the missing 2). As you say, they are the best English written reference books on German awards. But they don't tell all of the story!!!
Chas, I'll get those photo's taken ... in the meantime here's a pic of Great Uncle being presented to the Queen at the premier of the film " True Blue". He was 101 at the time.
reservist1
Member
Hi Mike: I will keep my eyes open for the volumes of the O'connor books you are missing. You are exactly correct that they do not tell the whole story. They are however a very good primer on the basics. I believe the "whole story" requires access to and an extensive understanding of all the royal decrees and changes thereto concerning German orders. I sure do not have that and never will. I'm not sure anyone will ever have all the answers.
Reservist1
Reservist1
Mike Huxley
New member
reservist1 said:
Hey R1, I would appreciate you doing that for me. There is only one or two people that I know have that "further knowledge" on German awards in their possesion, and both of them are in the States. You are right about never having all the answers, as Imperial German awards are a law unto themselves and the individual
reservist1
Member
Mike: Be happy to look for them for you, no promises but I will keep an eye open.
The one fellow in this country who literally had almost the entire story was Eric Ludvigsen. He had an encyclopedic knowledge of German orders and a thorough understanding of the awards system. Eric provided much of the data for the sections on decorations in the O'Connor books. Sadly, Eric passed away suddenly a couple of years ago. Those of us who knew him lost a good friend not to mention an irreplaceable source of information.
Reservist1
The one fellow in this country who literally had almost the entire story was Eric Ludvigsen. He had an encyclopedic knowledge of German orders and a thorough understanding of the awards system. Eric provided much of the data for the sections on decorations in the O'Connor books. Sadly, Eric passed away suddenly a couple of years ago. Those of us who knew him lost a good friend not to mention an irreplaceable source of information.
Reservist1
Mike Huxley
New member
reservist1 said:
R1, Yes I know about the sad passing of Eric, but I think Rick Lundstrom ( Rick Research on GMIC forum) has taken the task up of continuing Eric's work. We need people with the understanding and dedication to help us less able collectors to understand the past.
It is a long and slow process to build up the understanding of Imperial times. The one thing that is common to us all, on this and other forums, is to share our findings. Long may it last.
zipperheads9
New member
Another nice Brittish Decoration and to a nice unit . I agree that Imperial medals are hard to do research on .
I have a friebd who has a nice collection of Crimea groups to one unit .
One of the light horse units ( bad memory ) . Also has some nice Brittixh Yeomanry headgear .
Mark
I have a friebd who has a nice collection of Crimea groups to one unit .
One of the light horse units ( bad memory ) . Also has some nice Brittixh Yeomanry headgear .
Mark
TacHel
New member
Nice! I myself own the Crimean war medal but with 3 bars, also bestowed upon a sergeant. And I was lucky enough to find it matched to a "British issue" Turkish Crimea medal... That made my day!! I consider this small 2 medal set as one of the jewels in my collection.
Cheers!
Frank
Cheers!
Frank
Mike Huxley
New member
Well Chas, In the end my interests went back to the Crimea, and one thing lead to another.
My interest in the "Cameron Highlanders" led me to look deeper and earlier.
A strange thing happened. I advertised on the " British Medals Forum" that I was looking for anything to the Camerons ... well a guy in America replied that he had a few surplus awards to the Camerons. One was an "Indian Mutany Medal with Luknow Clasp" to a " James McDonald" 79th Highlanders No: 3200.
I replied that I was interested in buying and left it at that. The following weekend I went to a local Medal Fair. At a dealers stand, I asked if he had anything to the 79th, he said that he had one medal, a 3 clasp Crimea, "Alma, Balaclava, Sebastopol" named to " J McDonald" officially impressed with service records, wounded at Sebastopol .... service number 3200.
OMG did I bite his hand off??????
Now I have the re-united group to Pvt James McDonald of the 79th Regiment.
For your pleasure gent's .. the re-united group.
My interest in the "Cameron Highlanders" led me to look deeper and earlier.
A strange thing happened. I advertised on the " British Medals Forum" that I was looking for anything to the Camerons ... well a guy in America replied that he had a few surplus awards to the Camerons. One was an "Indian Mutany Medal with Luknow Clasp" to a " James McDonald" 79th Highlanders No: 3200.
I replied that I was interested in buying and left it at that. The following weekend I went to a local Medal Fair. At a dealers stand, I asked if he had anything to the 79th, he said that he had one medal, a 3 clasp Crimea, "Alma, Balaclava, Sebastopol" named to " J McDonald" officially impressed with service records, wounded at Sebastopol .... service number 3200.
OMG did I bite his hand off??????
Now I have the re-united group to Pvt James McDonald of the 79th Regiment.
For your pleasure gent's .. the re-united group.
Mike Huxley
New member
reverse of the pair
Mike Huxley
New member
From both sides of the pond .... Two awards to the same person re-united from so far apart. I'm now looking deeper into his background and will update as I go along
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Hi Mike:
What an incredible and fantastic reunion to share on the 153rd anniversary of the Battle of Inkermann. One wonders how the pair became separated. It's also nice to see both medals displaying comparable tarnish and dirt. They certainly look none the worse for wear. Kudos, you lucky devil!
"Crimeanwar.org" may be able to assist in your research:
http://www.crimeanwar.org/cwrsentry.html
You may find this of interest as well:
http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2221
Chas.
What an incredible and fantastic reunion to share on the 153rd anniversary of the Battle of Inkermann. One wonders how the pair became separated. It's also nice to see both medals displaying comparable tarnish and dirt. They certainly look none the worse for wear. Kudos, you lucky devil!
"Crimeanwar.org" may be able to assist in your research:
http://www.crimeanwar.org/cwrsentry.html
You may find this of interest as well:
http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2221
Chas.
Gents,
On the subject of Crimean War sets. Here is a 100% original untouched set of three:
Crimea Medal with three clasps 'Sebastopol', 'Inkermann' & 'Alma'
2nd China War Medal with clasp 'Taku Forts 1860'
Turkish Crimea Medal British Issue
All marked to Jonathan Storey, 44th Regiment (Essex Regiment). Coincidentally, the 44th was also the unit wiped out in the last stand at Gandamak in the First Afghan War.
Mike
On the subject of Crimean War sets. Here is a 100% original untouched set of three:
Crimea Medal with three clasps 'Sebastopol', 'Inkermann' & 'Alma'
2nd China War Medal with clasp 'Taku Forts 1860'
Turkish Crimea Medal British Issue
All marked to Jonathan Storey, 44th Regiment (Essex Regiment). Coincidentally, the 44th was also the unit wiped out in the last stand at Gandamak in the First Afghan War.
Mike
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Hi Mike:
Thanks for sharing this significant trio. Do you know if Storey was a casualty in any of his actions? If so, the value of the group is increased.
It appears that the Turkish Crimea Medal received an old repair. As British issue, I would expect it to have the same claw suspender as the other medals. Can you see a shadow for the original claw?
It's nice to see original ribbons on all three medals. The correct color of the Turkish ribbon has been a subject of great controversy. The official modern replacement ribbon, either nylon/cotton or polyester, is based on very faded original belonging to Lord(s) Cardigan or Raglan (or somebody). The original color (your ribbon) was a vibrant cherry red.
Congratulations, it's a great group.
Chas.
Thanks for sharing this significant trio. Do you know if Storey was a casualty in any of his actions? If so, the value of the group is increased.
It appears that the Turkish Crimea Medal received an old repair. As British issue, I would expect it to have the same claw suspender as the other medals. Can you see a shadow for the original claw?
It's nice to see original ribbons on all three medals. The correct color of the Turkish ribbon has been a subject of great controversy. The official modern replacement ribbon, either nylon/cotton or polyester, is based on very faded original belonging to Lord(s) Cardigan or Raglan (or somebody). The original color (your ribbon) was a vibrant cherry red.
Congratulations, it's a great group.
Chas.