The Great Hessen Wappen Challenge!

b.loree

Administrator
Staff member
Coming soon...a challenge to the membership! Who can spot/list the most differences between two Hessen private purchase wappen? :rolleyes: One is an officer's, the other, the OYV wappen from my FAR 25 helmet. The differences are subtle my friends....you will have to examine them closely! :sneaky: I am just waiting for a cloudy day here folks, in order to take the photos! (y) I may also throw in the wappen from my Hessen Reserve officer just to add to the challenge!! Game On as we say here in CN!
 

b.loree

Administrator
Staff member
Ok, this was delayed by the forum going down and then the photo size issue but now here we go. Lets see how many differences you can spot between these two private purchase Hessen wappen:
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On the left FAR 25 OYV, on the right a Hessen officer.
B22FE678-A126-491D-983A-7C6DD624B229_1_201_a.jpeg
The reverse.
EEB3A37B-0554-40A7-8878-A48EC1433996_1_201_a.jpeg
OYV FAR 25
408C25B1-9F45-4AB0-AE88-F47AADEF0472_1_201_a.jpeg
Hessen Officer. Game on !!
 

Louis

Active member
First off, plaque size, OYV has unrefined corners and edges, a clunky sword, solid reath, unvoided crown, thick tails, and "weak" gilding, and the feet are, shall we say clunky. I sure I missed some things
 

Sandmann

Well-known member
Well done Louis. The only thing I can add is that the OYV emblem has unvoided spaces between the leaves.
 

b.loree

Administrator
Staff member
Well, this has not generated that much interest, which is fine. My thanks to Sandy and Louis for their input. However, take a look at screw posts, lion tongues and crotches. Left paw of the YOV compared to the officer. Last, the platform upon which the lions stand. All of which strengthens the fact that yes, there were official probes of all wappen but there was still room for artistic design in making the dies.
 
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Sandmann

Well-known member
Well, this has not generated that much interest, which is fine. My thanks to Sandy and Louis for their input. However, take a look at screw posts, lion tongues and crotches. Left paw of the YOV compared to the officer. Last, the platform upon which the lions stand. All of which strengthens the fact that yes, there were official probes of all wappen but there was still room for artistic design in making the dies.
Brian, I like the idea and could imagine that more would join in after a few starting problems.

Today's precision of copies was difficult to implement at that time and very expensive. Of course, casts could be made, but cutting the mold was always done by hand. With so many details, 100% copies were definitely expensive. And since every effects manufacturer in the country would have had to have absolutely identical molds made for all the different helmet plates, the helmet would have become even more expensive.
Maybe we are the only ones who notice the small differences in detail, because at the time, due to the great effort involved, no one even thought about demanding 100% copies at all. Ultimately, the soldiers only had to look identical and good from a distance of 1.5 meters, when they line up or when they march past. I therefore believe, just like you, that the motif was only specified on the basis of a drawing and the size and that some artistic freedom was allowed in the implementation.
 

Tony without Kaiser

Departed
Staff member
When Sandy say's "copies" he means exact duplication of the War Ministry 'Probe' samples which were supplied to manufacturers as the standard to meet. As Sandy, said, 'close was good enough' which is why you find variations on originals.
 

Sandmann

Well-known member
I may have found something interesting on this topic for some people….
Ordinance sheet of the Bavarian Ministry of War No. 21, dated September 1, 1865, pages 111 to 126
The link leads to a War Ministry decree with which the details for a new Bavarian Tschapka were published on September 1st, 1865. It’s a bavarian example, but I guess it was similar in Prussia. The drawings were very detailed and the descriptive texts contained material requirements, colors and cost accounting, everything that could not be conveyed with the drawing.
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(Source: books.google.de - Bavarian ordinance sheet, page 126)
 

b.loree

Administrator
Staff member
An OR's JR 117 wappen from my collection for further comparison:
70F2C00E-FD61-461A-B190-CB9E7229EEF8_1_201_a.jpeg
Still, excellent quality and details. The date bandeaus are separate, not part of the stamping.
EB888139-057E-4174-A623-5DF5525B8CA5_1_201_a.jpeg
Soldered loops and bent prongs securing the date bandeau.
 
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