Thoughts?

joerookery

joerookery

Well-known member
http://www.cgmauctions.com/detail.asp?id=2606&n=WWI-Spiked-Helmet-Rare-Cloth-Covered-Ersatz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Someone asked me about this. I gave my opinion what is yours?
 
2.Masurisches Infanterie Regiment Nr 147-XX AK-Lyck und Lötzen (Ost Preussen).

But...I bet you guys figured this out...

Thoughts ? Yes Joe ! A hole lot of thoughts indeed :-?

Winter camouflage or "hot climate" gear.
Never seen an example like this before. This kind of fabric: yes; in white: no.

Rgds,
Francis
 
I did not like it at all which generated an extremely pro Gottlieb response basically stating that that his guarantee and certificate were the best and my opinion was flawed. I could well be wrong but the oilskins on this cloth covered left me cold. I think Karel has one like this. That I would love to see for comparison .

I have seen a WHite cloth before that came from the Balkans but it was vastly Different Than this. The markings are suspect but I am out of town and canNot check jr147's connection to the Balkans.

The paint is not consistant with photos and the underlying material is also suspect to me. Other thoughts?
 
I would say that, in addition to the markings, the liner looks questionable too.

Regards,

Edwin
 
I think Karel has one like this. That I would love to see for comparison .
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Here ya go Joe...
This white haube looks good, but the white painting and the stamps are a mistery to me... Maybe it was painted after the war for theatrical use or so? Only guessing of course...

Adler













 
I've found Craig to be a reputable dealer and he says he has no idea what the white was from, so nobody can fault him for that.
However, about the helmet itself, I think it's safe to discount the markings, unless using an ink pen of some sort was the habit from time to time. Whomever applied the white paint had a lot of skill or some masking tape to keep from getting ANY on the liner or inside of the helmet. A mystery helmet to be sure! Personally, I'd need some reason or photographs to prove the coat of white, because I don't have money to blow on the off chance that this is something rare or unusual.
Theatrical use? Art Project (paint it white and de-objectify it)? Restaurant decore? Halloween costume? Cold winter in the tropics? Who knows?

:D Ron
 
I have probably spent too much time on this. However, the response I got to my email about my opinion was sort of a downer. First I would like to thank Karel for his comparison pictures. That was very helpful. The helmet in question is certainly like your example and unlike the one "white one" that I know of which came out of the Balkans.
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The white paint is wrong and as Arran said this one has strange marks. The problems with the marks are compounded by the fact that there was no peacetime BA in XX Corps. In addition, there is this really small problem that JR 147 was not in the Balkans or anywhere tropical.

this is one from Craig Gottlieb, one of the biggest and most respected dealers in the world, and he guarantees it as original. It is on his auction now (http://www.historyhunter.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and comes with his personal letter of guarantee. He believes it is tropical,
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At SOS there were many comments about the "correctness" of the helmets he was selling. He may be a large dealer indeed – I would just like to see what it says in this personal letter of guarantee- I am sure he will give you your money back if it turns out to be "bad" but I am not sure what the criteria is for deciding if it is correct or not. This may well be a great helmet and a unique find but it is not for me.
 
I think Craig is a reputable dealer as well, however, I do not think he is an expert on Pickelhauben. As Joe stated, he had some very high end helmets at SOS and well....

FYI my 2000th post

James
 
joerookery said:
The white paint is wrong and as Arran said this one has strange marks. The problems with the marks are compounded by the fact that there was no peacetime BA in XX Corps. In addition, there is this really small problem that JR 147 was not in the Balkans or anywhere tropical.
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I agree with no BA in the XX AK in peacetime, but this is not concerning this helmet...The haube in question is marked 1916 and obviously a wartime made helmet (fieldgrey fittings under the white paint).
For comparison, some picts of my JR152 Filz Haube, same XX AK and marked BJA XX and 1916 too:







After a short research, it seems that the JR147 fought from 1914 up to 1917 (bolchevic revolution) on the Eastern front : Tannenberg, Lithuania, Narew, Bialystok, Bielorussia. Maybe the white paint is a kind of front made winter camouflage for helmets used in advanced observation posts???? Just an idea....However, IMHO, I think this helmet could be good...

Philippe
 
I agree with no BA in the XX AK in peacetime, but this is not concerning this helmet...The haube in question is marked 1916 and obviously a wartime made helmet (fieldgrey fittings under the white paint).
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You could very well be correct. The reason I said this is because I would have looked for or expected some sort of RBA or BJA before the XX. Unfortunately, I do not have any examples.
 
joerookery said:
I would have looked for or expected some sort of RBA or BJA before the XX. Unfortunately, I do not have any examples.
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Joe, you do have! :D
I have posted over there some picts of a B.J.A. XX stamp in a JR152 filz Haube which is in my collection. This stamp already is in your kammer list too :wink:

Philippe
 
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