Tin Tschapka arrived

J.LeBrasseur

Administrator
Staff member
Ok guy's the controversial Tin tschapka has arrived from the UK. Here are a lot of photo's please give me your honest opionions!

Front plate is very thin, but shows nice detail, it is not magnetic.

There is a lot of dirt and some kind of white stuff on the body, that I have not removed.

Inside show's lots of grime and some rust starting.

I am not sure what to think?

Thanks

James

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Hi James:

The eagle has very chunky proportions. Is the Tschapka unusually small? It's obviously old; therefore, I'm thinking Kinderhelm.

Chas.
 
Chas- you bring up a good point that I had not thought of!

The bird is almost Identical to my other two kinder helmets, same weight etc.

The helmet is small, does not even come close to fitting my 10 year old.

So another angle??

is it real wartime period tin Tschapka?

is it a kinder helmet?

or is it the Uk made fake that has been brought up?

James
 
Hi James:

I missed the discussion concerning a UK made fake. Have you information you can post here regarding that?

Is there a slot where a Feldzeichen can be fitted? I couldn't tell if the picture reveals just a partial separation in the mortar top.

There appears to be a shadow of a Kokarde on the left side of the helmet. Is there also one on the right (Reichskokarde) side?

Have you tried fitting a chinstrap to the helmet to see if the Knopf 91 are adult sized?

The liner is the secured using the same system as the Stahlblech. Is there a split brad at the back of the helmet as well?

Sorry about the twenty questions. The Tschapka is very interesting.

Chas.
 
Hi ,
Am I the only one that noticed that the attach loops on the Wappen have been moved?
Best wishes
Gus
 
Hi Gus:

I did take notice, but also forgot to comment.

D-uhhhhh!

Chas. :idea:
 
The shape and appearance of that chicken are just not right for a period original Line Eagle Wappen. The Kinder helmet idea in novel, as those Wappen were "close but no cigar" to actual military ones. Cannot speak for the helmet shell, but that might explain that swollen Wappen. That thing needs to go on Jenny Craig. Compare it to a standard line eagle Wappen below.

Is that a nut on one side and split brads on the other, both for the M91 posts? The nut is incorrect of course, and the split brad is not flattened. I cannot see the helmet being worn in this way, as either would have been uncomfortable. Those factors alone for me and it would be on its way back to the UK. Many very reputable dealers have sold these over the years, I saw one in the April 04 Kube auction and Kunst & Militaria has one right now. Some feel that these are replicas, but I really have no idea myself as I have never handled one.


wappen111.jpg
 
Well guy's I am going to Chalk this up as a learning experience, and try and return the helmet. I am not happy with it at all, to many things wrong with it.

I will keep photos for future referance if anybody needs them in the future.

Thanks for all the help.

I will keep you posted on the return.

James
 
I am really happy that you can ship it back James. I was the first one to put the red flag when I saw this thing advertised. Unfortunately it is not the last one we'll see...
Bruno
 
Well guy's this one is not over yet?

He told me to ship it back for full refund, so I Airmailed it back over 5 weeks ago...

About 3 weeks ago, I e-mailed him and he said it had not arrived yet? For the last 2 weeks there has been no reply to any of my e-mails? Now I understand he may not be around, but he is still posting new stuff on Ebay everyday, so my feeling is he is ignoring me.

This one is mostly my fault to begin with, as I should have known better then to buy this one, but since he agreed to refund my money and I sent it back, I want my money back, I even told him to deduct shipping charges, that was fine with me.

The dealer is Andy Beal in the UK.

Anybody got any ideas, advice, know him etc?

Any help would be appreciated.

James
 
Not sure if someone said somthing to him or not, but he responded this morning, told me I would have Refund within 48 hours.

I will keep you posted.

Thanks

James
 
Great news James!

I wish I had been so lucky with my bogus Sachsen MGA Tschako. :cry:

Chas. :D
 
I just returned from the MAX, which proved to be a very worthwhile undertaking (I certainly had more success finding things there than at the SOS). I also met up with Jerry Rehr, who had a very nice IR 94 Offizier helmet for sale.

My most exciting find was an Ersatz Eisenblech Tschapka. James, if you kept the photos of the dud which began this thread, it would be interesting to compare them against this:

PICT0228.jpg


Although the liner is in a perilously fragile state of repair, the pattern is what I would expect from any legitmate Tschapka; tapered and squared tongues with double holes for the liner cord.

PICT0223.jpg


Those familiar with the Eisenblech Pickelhaube, or "kit helmet," know of the wool skullcap acting as a buffer between the liner and tin shell. The Tschapka is fitted with a leather skullcap. Consequently, the interior is virtually identical to that of its all leather brethren.

PICT0222.jpg


The profile is contoured over the ear with a rolled edge.

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The visor is held in place with rivets. The edge is rolled; therefore, brass visor trim was never intended.

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The Wappen is brass, as are the Knopf 91. The Preußen line eagle was once gilt, traces of which remain. The eagle is attached using conventional M95 loops and leather wedges. The loops pass through both the tin outer skin and skullcap.

PICT0221.jpg


A final view of the construction. The slot for the Feldzeichen measures just one centimeter across. I wouldn't be surprised to learn the original badge was likewise made of tin.

PICT0218.jpg


The mortar is static and cannot be removed. The four corners incorporate small underside vent holes. The Fangschnurr toggle is missing, but chipping to the paint surrounding the hole indicates the Tschapka was fitted with cords. Finally, as with the chinstrap for the tin Pickelhaube, the leather is riveted rather than sewn.


Chas.
 
You have to be real careful with these, as there are a ton of fakes made in the UK floating around. Yours has the features that I would look for in an original, the visor riveted onto the outside of the shell, the thin visor edging, the rim "beading" around the back, contoured side profile over the ear, and the relatively short neck for the squared top. Plus of course everything else like the liner, chicken etc etc. Oy! :love10: The replicas have a very wide front visor trim and a very tall neck for the squared top. I have been trying to find an original for years with no luck, so congratulations Chas.I also applaud the numerous photos and detailed description. Excellent! =D> This rolled edge has always led me to believe that the same manufacturer of these tin Tschapka, also made the Ersatz Preußen Infantry Stahlblech (steel) issued Pickelhaube, as the rolled edge seems the same, and both were issued with a skull cap.

Lost Skeleton said:
The slot for the Feldzeichen measures just one centimeter across. I wouldn't be surprised to learn the original badge was likewise made of tin.
I would be. I would expect the Feldzeichen would have been cloth-covered wood based on the photos I have seen. Question: Is the neck held on by flat rivets at the base? Like my Sachsen Ersatz example with the leather body?

dbh56e.jpg
 
Chas- yes I have the old photo's of the bad one, I will e-mail them to you as there are a lot of them.

James
 
Tony & Kaiser said:
This rolled edge has always led me to believe that the same manufacturer of these tin Tschapka, also made the Ersatz Preußen Infantry Stahlblech (steel) issued Pickelhaube, as the rolled edge seems the same, and both were issued with a skull cap.
Hi Tony:

I share this belief, and, when viewed side by side, the similarity is striking. Thank you for your comments and insights. I first considered posting the Tschapka in Latest Find, but considered it of greater relevance here. When a thread goes dormant, it is all too quickly forgotten. Some are worth a second look.

Tony & Kaiser said:
I would expect the Feldzeichen would have been cloth-covered wood based on the photos I have seen.
Larcade Volume Two confirms this on page 41. I checked it this morning. The Fort de la Pompelle Tschapka is identical to mine.

Tony & Kaiser said:
Question: Is the neck held on by flat rivets at the base?
No, it appears to be assembled just like an M95 spike/spike base. The neck passes through the hole in the shell and is soldered to the underside. Drat these pixel limits! The side view above provided great detail of the neck before being arbitrarily shrunk to the proportions of a business card. Is anybody listening? The pictures are too small.

PICT0240.jpg


Now, for some additional photos I took this morning. The holes at the four corners of the mortar are the only means of ventilation (not counting the slot for the Feldzeichen).

PICT0233.jpg


The back of the Knopf 91 can be glimpsed through a tear in the liner.

PICT0237.jpg


Finally, one of the attachment loops:

PICT0236.jpg


Chas.
 
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