von Hindenburg's Postwar Pickels

[Lost Skeleton]

I can't recall if this has been discussed previously, but I have always found it odd that the Pickelhauben worn by President von Hindenburg are nothing like those he would have worn as Feldmarschall.

Chas

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Great photo's Chas, never seen those before

James

 

[Glennj]

Chas

Generalfeldmarschall v. Hindenburg invariably wore the uniform of the 3. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß of which he had been à la suite since 24 December 1908.

Regards
Glenn

 

[Khukri]

Some fine photo's of Lt Paul von Hindenburg as Sekondeleutnant/Unterleutnant in the 3.Garde-Regiment zu Fuss, after the Battle of Sadowa / Königgrätz.
J-L Larcade's Volume I; pages 14 and 15.

He proudly wears his Pickelhaube that was pierced by schrappnell.

Rgds,
Francis

 

[poniatowski]

Would he have kept his hand gloved had he been shaking hands with another man of similar military rank?

Ron

 

[Lost Skeleton]

Thanks for the replies. Perhaps I should have been more specific. In the first two photos (taken, perhaps, seconds apart--where did the Mantel go?), von H is wearing a Garde helmet with vaulted scales, but the front peak is rounded (not angled, as it should be), the spike cone is not fluted (as it should be), and the spike base is not cruciform (as it should be). It's a Garde officer helmet, yes, but not a General's, or General à la suite helmet.

The third photo is even more inexplicable, as the helmet is a run of the mill Preußen line officer helmet, albeit with vaulted scales.

I find this totally bizarre.

 

[poniatowski]

When you're v. Hindenburg, you wear what you darned well please. I would imagine an aide removed the overcoat as soon as he was out of the car / wind.

Ron

 

[b.loree]

Very ironic Chas that I just read your post on this and thought the exact same thing today when I was showing vol 1 of the BBC seriess The Nazis to my Grade 12s. This first video is titled "Helped Into Power" and deals with the early years up to 1933. The movie version of your shots shows the exact same scene. I also wondered what the heck is von H wearing that haube for?? I also wondered...what happened to H's uniforms and hauben?? Shots of Ludendorf in the same video show him wearing the proper Generals haube.

 

[Lost Skeleton]

Brian, were your ears buzzing? :lol:

I've noted that about Ludendorff, too. The man always looked correct.

Regarding von Hindenburg, perhaps senility was the culprit. Maybe his batman made off with a fancy souvenir and left a cheap surrogate in its stead.

I suppose we'll never know.

Chas

 

[poniatowski]

There are movies of v.H's helmet on his coffin. Probably put it under with the old guy.
Veterans of WWI often wore their helmets to show pride in their service, especially pre-WWI service (similar to WWII US vets wearing their tunics and such). If you watch 'Triumph of the Will' you will see a LOT of Bavarians wearing their helmets to parades and such.

Yeah, I also don't really know what happened to all of his stuff. May have been burned up in WWII.

Ron

 

[Glennj]

I am not sure what the issue is here; as a General à la suite to or as Chef of a regiment, he was entitled, if he so wished, to wear the regimental pattern helmet. He could of course, also wear in regimental uniform the general officers' pattern helmet with a regimental helmet plate. As von Hindenburg was Chef of Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 147, he could wear a line helmet and as he was à la suite to 3. GRzF, he could wear a Foot Guards helmet.

Regards
Glenn

 

[Arran]

Hindenburg was an honorary "Colonel-in-Chief" of the regiment, that's why wears an Officer's pattern helmet. Its the same reason von Rundstedt wore Officers' rather than Generals' pattern collar tabs in the Second World War...

 

[Lost Skeleton]

Thanks, Glenn and Arran. Got it. It explains the collar Litzen in pictures one and two, and the lack thereof in picture three. I should have been thinking along the lines of the Kaiser's honorary uniforms.

… still have to wonder about those vaulted chinscales on the IR 147 helmet, though. :dontknow: