What is this?

SkipperJohn

Well-known member
This is supposed to be a Model 1868 Bavarian Raupenhelm for officers.
I have been in this debate before and I am still undecided on these helmets.

Here is a Model 1845 for enlisted infantry:
TapK8xK.jpg


Here is a Model 1868 for enlisted infantry:
Z7sG2fW.jpg


Note how the rear neck guard and front visor are attached. They are folded under and made to look like the helmet is made from one piece.
Look at the photograph you posted and see how the rear neck guard is attached. It looks like it would be on a Pickelhaube. They are not near the same.

Here is the debate: some will say that this is a private purchase officer's Model 1868 Raupenhelm and that the rear visors were attached differently depending upon the manufacturer. Others will say that the Raupenhelm shown is actually a later model fireman's helmet that has been converted to a "fake" Raupenhelm.
I still don't know the truth. You need to carefully check the inside of the helmet and see how the Raupe is attached. Any extra holes or anything that doesn't line up is a bad sign. Also check the rear visor closely to see if brass trim has ever been attached, an indication of a fireman's helmet. Small holes at the very ends of the rear visor can show that pins/studs were once present and this is also a very bad sign.

I hope others chime in. I have wondered about this for years.

John :)
 

J.LeBrasseur

Well-known member
I am from the opinion that this type of Officers Raupenhelm is ok, I am biased as I have one that I have no doubt in my mind is real, see pictures.

Also, on page 69 of the Best reference of Bavarian helmets, Die Helme der Koniglich Bayerischen Armee 1806-1918 by Walter Seibold and Gerd Schultz, there is a picture of this type. it is listed as a M1868 officer helmet. Clearly shows 3 piece design and you can see the red on inside of rear visor

IMO I think the one on Ebay is legit, just missing the silk liner, but as John clearly states and this is important, always look for the extra holes from previous attachments.

thanks

James









 

SkipperJohn

Well-known member
I found the advertisement on Ebay of the helmet originally posted in this thread and I have to admit that it looks really good. It would be very difficult to argue authenticity with this piece.

Here is another example that is different than any of those above:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Antique-Bavarian-Officers-Mohawk-Plume-not-spike-Helmet/292893851692?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Note how the front and rear visor are attached under a leather bead unlike the one in the original post or the one in James' collection.

I wish that I still had the photos of the fake that I once purchased. It was made from one of these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Imperial-German-Firemans-Firefighters-Leather-Helmet/223121095350?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I bought it off of Ebay and didn't question any of the photos; it looked good. When it arrived I found that the Raupe was made of fake fur (nylon I believe) and that the cockade was actually plastic. The outline of the comb used on the fireman's helmet was still visible on the inside of the helmet (couldn't be seen in the ad photos because of the silk liner and it was covered on the outside by the Raupe). It was beautiful --- just not real. It also became the absolute worst nightmare that I have ever had trying to return something on Ebay. The owner guaranteed originality (which wasn't true) and I had to prove otherwise. The seller simply stated that he didn't know. To make a long story short, I was able to return it and I got my full purchase price. Since it came from Germany I was out around $100.00 for postage. A lesson well learned.

Again, now that I have seen photos of the inside and all angles of the helmet in question, I would say it does look original!

James --- I have got to buy that book!

John :)
 

SkipperJohn

Well-known member
Pardon me --- I lied.
My wife read this post and asked if I was referring to the helmet I was so disappointed with about eleven years ago. I said it was, and she said it didn't come from Germany --- it came from England.

I suppose I should have known better to start with.

John :)
 

SkipperJohn

Well-known member
J.LeBrasseur said:
John- hard book to find, I will keep my eye out for you.

James

Hard to find puts it mildly --- try impossible.
I only have the two Raupenhelm's pictured above, if you don't include the 1809 Prussian Kurassier.
Do you think it would be a good idea to add a separate "Raupenhelm" section in this forum?

John :???:
 

J.LeBrasseur

Well-known member
Hard to find puts it mildly --- try impossible.
I only have the two Raupenhelm's pictured above, if you don't include the 1809 Prussian Kurassier.
Do you think it would be a good idea to add a separate "Raupenhelm" section in this forum?

John :???:
[/quote]

Good Idea, Brian????
 

SkipperJohn

Well-known member
b.loree said:
Why not? Give me a week until I get home and we will set it up.

Great! I'm sure that will be helpful to anyone researching these.
I do not know how to transfer an entire thread, but here are two that you could transfer to kick it off:

https://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11354
https://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11355

John :)
 
Top