What kind of cockade?

joerookery

joerookery

Well-known member
And other one-year volunteer -- -- no portepee -- -- does anyone care to speculate as to what kind of cockade that is? Seems a bit long for 48 mm.
42OYV.jpg

42OYV_1.jpg

42OYV_3.jpg
 
Wow, Joe, I don't know anything about the cockade, but that helmet is so shiny you almost have to wear sunglasses to look at it!! :D
 
I have a pair of these, they are private purchase Mannschaften Kokaren. What they are, are 55mm officer Kokarden with the silver ring not mounted and paint (like an issued Kokarde) where the ring would normally be.

More interesting; in the past I have argued that Eigentumshelm can occasionally be found with spike base stars, and others have argued that only officers wore stars. This photo shows clearly that this no-rank EJF has stars mounting the spike base.
 
I have a pair of these, they are private purchase Mannschaften Kokaren. What they are, are 55mm officer Kokarden with the silver ring not mounted and paint (like an issued Kokarde) where the ring would normally be.
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I've never seen this but it makes tremendous sense. The cockade in the picture looks too big to be 48 mm. if indeed a one-year volunteer purchased an officers helmet and then downgraded it -- there you go!

More interesting; in the past I have argued that Eigentumshelm can occasionally be found with spike base stars, and others have argued that only officers wore stars. This photo shows clearly that this no-rank EJF has stars mounting the spike base.
Click to expand...
There seems to be so much confusion on these helmets. What I have not seen is some sort of regulation that dictates what a one -year volunteer should wear. Glenn is looking in that 1897 Bekleidungsordnung. It seems that every regiment or every individual is somewhat different. I don't know if this was a regiment thing or an individual thing. I have more reading to do...
According to conventional wisdom, OYV helmets had something, but not all, of the officer characteristics of helmets.� Pearl rings, liners, star studs, back spines, voided eagles, and perhaps cockardes. While this is pretty close to reality. The emphasis was on modification of the helmet to be officers standard. They ordered an officer's helmet and then downgraded. So voided eagles, back spines and liners were common. [xxii] Cockardes were easy to pop off so that left dome studs and pearl rings. [xxiii] This made it easy to upgrade again to avoid another purchase. This is a translation of Lacarde "That gave way to many variables, the more or less whimsical ones, between the helmet of troop and that of the Officer." [xxiv] He states that these helmet mixtures held for both categories of Fähnrich, Vize-Feldwebel, and Feldwebel. [xxv] Jan Kube has an example in his book and shows the differences to be dome screws and officer cockardes. [xxvi]
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http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/new%20OneYearVolunteer.htm
 
Uless it is a blemish in the photograph, there is also something odd about the spike itself. There appears to be a step or rolled ridge where the spike meets the base.

Reservist1
 
joerookery said:
I've never seen this but it makes tremendous sense. The cockade in the picture looks too big to be 48 mm.
Click to expand...
Now, I ask you (mock irritation), why do I bust my chops taking pictures of interesting things when nobody bothers to look? This has been up before (January 29, 2006 to be precise).

The Kokarde....the Kokarde!

Chas. :)

2GU.jpg
 
There appears to be a step or rolled ridge where the spike meets the base.
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R1,
can you expand on this? I know the picture is poor but I'm not sure what you mean. This is the best I could do.
42OYV_6.jpg


Chas,

I didn't notice the cockade before. This is an excerpt from the 1897 Bekleidungsordnung. Ulan hats also had 48 mm cockades.
ulankockade.jpg
 
Joe: I took the liberty of copying a portion of your photo and added a white arrow indicating the area of the spike that looks like a step or rolled edge.


Reservist1
 
I think that "extra ridge" is just the reflection from the window to his left. You can see the window in the black of the helmet. If his helmet has a mirror polish I suspect the spike might have glowed in the dark.

John
 
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