Württemberg detachment to a Prussian telegraph Battalion

Joe,

11 enlisted people??
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I understand the figures were a bit higher than that. The 1905 edition of the Führer durch Heer und Flotte gives an establishment for the Württemberg Detachment assigned to 2. Kompagnie of Telegraphen-Bataillon Nr. 1 as two officers, one Sergeant, three Unteroffiziere, one Kapitulant, four Gefreiter and 40 Gemeine. The figues were increased (I do not have the numbers to hand) when a second detachment was formed to augment the newly formed 4. (Funker-) Kompagnie of the same battalion on 1 October 1911.

On 1 October 1913 the Württemberg Detachments left Tel.-Bat. Nr. 1 to become 3./Tel.-Bat. Nr. 4 with a strength of six officers, 27 NCOs and 173 men.

Regards
Glenn
 
Joe: I thought you might find this regimental stein from a member of the Wurttemberg detachment (2nd company) Telegraqph Bn. 1 interesting. The service dates on the stein are 1905 - 1907.

Note the red and black chevron on the shoulder strap which signifies the Wurrtemberg detachment. Additionally, the owner of the stein chose to have a Wurttemberg crest as a thumblift on his stein.


tb12c.jpg



Reservist1
 
thought you might find this regimental stein from a member of the Wurttemberg detachment (2nd company) Telegraqph Bn. 1 interesting.
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That's an understatement! Got to be beyond rare! Thank you for sharing it R1.

Glenn,

The figues were increased (I do not have the numbers to hand) when a second detachment was formed to augment the newly formed 4. (Funker-) Kompagnie of the same battalion on 1 October 1911.
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Didn't these guys wear pickelhaube??

The 1905 edition of the Führer durch Heer und Flotte
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I think I only have the 1914 edition. I did not even look there.

On 1 October 1913 the Württemberg Detachments left Tel.-Bat. Nr. 1 to become 3./Tel.-Bat. Nr. 4 with a strength of six officers, 27 NCOs and 173 men.
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I totally missed this. Where did you find this?
Thanks!
 
Joe,

Didn't these guys wear pickelhaube??
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No, the Tschako was introduced for the Württemberg Detachments per Order of 21 September 1907.

I totally missed this. Where did you find this?
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AVB of 1913 page 146 and appendix 25. Also Jany, Geschichte der Preußischen Armee, Volume 4 page 321. Strengths also given in Führer durch Heer und Flotte 1914.

Regards
Glenn
 
I understand the figures were a bit higher than that. The 1905 edition of the Führer durch Heer und Flotte gives an establishment for the Württemberg Detachment assigned to 2. Kompagnie of Telegraphen-Bataillon Nr. 1 as two officers, one Sergeant, three Unteroffiziere, one Kapitulant, four Gefreiter and 40 Gemeine. The figues were increased (I do not have the numbers to hand) when a second detachment was formed to augment the newly formed 4. (Funker-) Kompagnie of the same battalion on 1 October 1911.
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Okay I am on board with this now. Thank you for keeping me straight. Still a pretty small organization.

On 1 October 1913 the Württemberg Detachments left Tel.-Bat. Nr. 1 to become 3./Tel.-Bat. Nr. 4 with a strength of six officers, 27 NCOs and 173 men.
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Okay I have seen the light here now also. However, the guy in the picture cannot be from Battalion number four because he is wearing Litzen. So this has to be before October 1913??
 
Joe,

So this has to be before October 1913??So this has to be before October 1913??
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That would seem to be the case. Either from 2./Tel.-Bat. Nr. 1 or 4./Tel.-Bat. Nr. 1.

Regards
Glenn
 
All very interesting, but 3rd Komp of Telegraphen-Bataillon Nr.4 (Karlsruhe-Freiburg) XIV Armee Korps wore a Württemberg Wappen in silver on the leather Tschako after 10 Sept 1913 and a Württemberg Wappen in Feldgrau steel after 9 Sept 1915. This is a wartime photo with the soldier in Feldgrau. I do not believe he is Telegraphen-Bataillon Nr.4.

Could he be Württembergische Schneeschuh-Kompanien or the two Battalions of the Gebirgs regiment (May 1918)?? They wore Litzen and did wear the Stern der Württembergischen Kronenordens.
 
Tony,

I do not believe he is Telegraphen-Bataillon Nr.4.
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Neither do I. However, the Württemberg Militär-Verordnungsblatt, makes no mention of the wearing of the Wappen by the Württemberg Detachements when introduced in 1907: "Der Zierat am Tschako des Württembergischen Detachements beim Telegraphenbataillon Nr. 1 besteht aus dem Stern des Ordens der Württembergischen Krone". I understand that when the Württembergers went to the 4th battalion they did indeed drop the litzen and adopt the Württemberg Wappen.

Of course, it could be a wartime photograph. I shall check on the litzen issue with the WGB as I don't think I have come across that before.

Regards
Glenn

P.S. Afterthought: Just noticed those cuffs!!!!
 
For what it is worth, Walter Wannenwetsch and Joachim Hilsenbeck in their reference on Wurttemberg Military headdress from 1869 to 1919 indicate that the Model 1915 shako with the Star of the Wurttermberg Crown was worn by the Gebirgs Bn., and Flieger troops.
The authors also indicate that telegraph troops wore a Model 1915 shako with standard Wurttemberg front plate.

Reservist1
 
Tony,

pesky indeed!!

I cannot find any reference to litzen being worn by the WGB. Apart from a couple of officers who are wearing the uniform of previous units, all the individuals photographed in the regimental history wear the green patch with button.

As best as I can tell, the Württemberg Telegraphentruppen wore the shako with the Stern des Ordens der Württembergischen Krone from 1907 to 1913 when it was superceded by the Württemberg plate. The normally reliable Paul Pietsch muddies the waters here with this plate supposedly showing the situation in 1914.

Regards
Glenn

TelB4.jpg
 
Glennj said:
(...)
I cannot find any reference to litzen being worn by the WGB. Apart from a couple of officers who are wearing the uniform of previous units, all the individuals photographed in the regimental history wear the green patch with button. (...)

As best as I can tell, the Württemberg Telegraphentruppen wore the shako with the Stern des Ordens der Württembergischen Krone from 1907 to 1913 when it was superceded by the Württemberg plate. The normally reliable Paul Pietsch muddies the waters here with this plate supposedly showing the situation in 1914.

Regards
Glenn
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Before 28 November 1914 the Wuerttembergische Gebirgs Bataillone or WGB-units did not exist. For that reason all references to a possible connection of WGB-members related to the years 1907 or 1913 or not valid.

This is Generalmajor Sproesser of the WGB.
madpp2.jpg


See also: http://pierreswesternfront.punt.nl/index.php?r=1&id=534577&tbl_archief=0#534577 and
http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/W%C3%BCrtt_GebR .
 
Glennj said:
I cannot find any reference to litzen being worn by the WGB.
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Oop.s I meant to make that a question, not a statement, (screwed up) I cannot find the WGB wearing anything but the Gebirgs-Litewka with patch either.

So who is the guy in Joe's photo? 4 Kompanie Luftschiffer Btln Nr. 4 wore the Stern der Württembergischen Kronenordens until 10 Sept 1913 and the Wappen after. But they wore single Litzen, not double.

For interest, here is a chap with the Württemberg Wappen on his Tschako, "possibly" in grey steel, as he is wearing a Bluse. I have to assume it is a small one, as discussed in the "Little Wappens" thread.

Wurt_Tschako.jpg
 
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