Saxon Uhlan Tschapska M1860

[chrisutter]

Saxon Uhlan Tschapska, I think M1860,
I would like to know if everythink is ok on this Tschapska, especially if it has the right cocarde.
Thank you in advance.

 

[911car]

No cockade was worn on these models. You can take it off. The cockade appeared on Tschapkas in 1897, and it would have been the Empire cockade anyway (black/white/red), not the Saxon type.

 

[911car]

And the model year is 1867, not 1860, although it retains a trait of the older (1862) model: the Rabatte is not removable.

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

That is absolutely outstanding. What an amazing early Tschapka.

Traumstück!

 

[chrisutter]

No cockade was worn on these models. You can take it off. The cockade appeared on Tschapkas in 1897, and it would have been the Empire cockade anyway (black/white/red), not the Saxon type.

Thank you very much for your appreciated feedback !!

 

[chrisutter]

This Tschapka would be for sell ! Is there an e-stand here ?

 

[SkipperJohn]

What is the seam between the front half and the back half of this Tschapka?
It looks like two helmets have been sewn together.
I do not own a Tschapka and I am not very familiar with them at all, but I have not seen this seam before.
Really curious.

John

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

John the Tschapka is an M1862 and that separately attached piece at the back of the skull is a leftover feature of the M1808. It served no purpose and was removed when the M1867 Tschapka was introduced.

 

[SkipperJohn]

Thanks Tony.

John

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

John I assume you have the phenomenal book Herr, U, Nguyen, U. (2006) The German Cavalry from 1871 to 1914 Verlag Militaria, Vienna.

Pages 522-533 show this exact model of Saxon Tschapka and explain the redundant ’folding rear visor’.

 

[Stosstrupp]

Very nice uhlan helmet.

 

[911car]

John the Tschapka is an M1862 and that separately attached piece at the back of the skull is a leftover feature of the M1808. It served no purpose and was removed when the M1867 Tschapka was introduced.

Tony, you are correct: this Tschapka retains traits of the 62 model, i.e the leather reinforcement at the back and the non-detachable Rabatte. However, I wrote this is a 1867 model because Saxon Ulanen regiements (17 and 18) were created in 1867 and hence they adopted the Prussian 1867 Tschapka, modified with the saxon plate.

There is a very striking difference between the 62 and 67 models: the 1862 Tschapka still had the eagle plate affixed on the mortarboard. It is in 1867 that it was attached, for the first time, to the shell. It then remained there. In addition, the 67 shell is slightly lower and more rounded, following the same evolution as on spike helmets.

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

Bruno yes to all what you wrote, I stand corrected. What makes it confusing is that yes, Saxony adopted the Tschapka in 1867 but they retained the back neck flap and non removable cane and cloth neck but with the Wappen on the front of the shell, until 1888. As shown by the example in this thread. So it was a ‘hybrid’ of sorts. P. 507, Herr, Nguyen, The German Cavalry. I would have loved to have found an issued Prussian M1862 with the Wappen on the neck but it never happened.

 

[911car]

Bruno yes to all what you wrote, I stand corrected. What makes it confusing is that yes, Saxony adopted the Tschapka in 1867 but they retained the back neck flap and non removable cane and cloth neck but with the Wappen on the front of the shell, until 1888. As shown by the example in this thread. So it was a ‘hybrid’ of sorts. P. 507, Herr, Nguyen, The German Cavalry. I would have loved to have found an issued Prussian M1862 with the Wappen on the neck but it never happened.

You are correct, Tony: JL Larcade shows, on p. 30, such a "hybrid" Prussian officer Tschapka. It is a 1868 model that still retains a fixed Rabatte and leather reinforcement piece at the back. Larcade describes it as a "fantasy" model, to be worn only in parade.

 

[Sandmann]

I am currently researching Saxon helmets and came across this post. In doing so, I noticed a few things about what was said before, for which I would like to point out excerpts from the dress code for Saxon officers from 1867, according to which this is a correct Tschapka for enlisted men from 1867:

• The white cloth Rabatte with the white cord trim was correct for the 1st Saxon Uhlan Regiment (for the 2nd Uhlan Regiment, the cloth was dark purple-red. For officers, the edges of the cloth were trimmed with gold braids).
• The leather piece attached at the back, formally known as "Hinterblende", was mandatory for enlisted men in black leather like the mortarboard. For officers of the 1st Saxon Uhlan Regiment, the "Hinterblende" was covered with white cloth and the trimmed with gold braids like the mortarboard (for the 2nd Saxony Uhlan-Regiment again in dark purple-red cloth).

Here you can download the complete clothing regulations:
Vorschriften über die Bekleidung und Offiziers-Pferde-Equipage der Königlich Sächsischen Armee von 1867

 

[Lars13]

Thanks Sandy,
I really like primary sources
Regards,
Lars