Prussian flag ring of the standard of the Ulanen Regiment Graf zu Dohna - East Prussian No. 8

[Eichenblatt]

Hello Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

I would like to ask for opinions regarding the authenticity of the artifact, for which I kindly thank you in advance.

My best regards.

Piotr

 

[KAGGR#1]

Hello Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

I would like to ask for opinions regarding the authenticity of the artifact, for which I kindly thank you in advance.

My best regards.

Piotr

From what I see so far I do NOT like it .There are now a lot of fake / reproduction Fahna rings out there now.
The best way to know , of course is to have a real example in your hands for study. Once you have a real one in your hands
it is early to spot a reproduction. I am lucky to own several original Imperial German regt./ Batl unit rings.
Two that I own are still on the original fahna poles with flags. Several of the ones that I have came from the Jan K. Kube
special sale back in 1999.Once I was offer a repo ring for a unit of which I already owed the real one.
As far as the U R 8 ring; First I would do the following ;
1.see if the U R 8 flag is in the DHM
2. check to see if the U R 8 flag was taken to Russia after WWII
Here is an example of real I R 72 / F B ring on the right
the copy ( while well done ) is on the left
they just didn't get it right
Photo work done by my late collector friend Ben K. Weed of Old Flags Wanted
more later
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

From what I see so far I do NOT like it .There are now a lot of fake / reproduction Fahna rings out there now.
The best way to know , of course is to have a real example in your hands for study. Once you have a real one in your hands
it is early to spot a reproduction. I am lucky to own several original Imperial German regt./ Batl unit rings.
Two that I own are still on the original fahna poles with flags. Several of the ones that I have came from the Jan K. Kube
special sale back in 1999.Once I was offer a repo ring for a unit of which I already owed the real one.
As far as the U R 8 ring; First I would do the following ;
1.see if the U R 8 flag is in the DHM
2. check to see if the U R 8 flag was taken to Russia after WWII
Here is an example of real I R 72 / F B ring on the right
the copy ( while well done ) is on the left
they just didn't get it right
Photo work done by my late collector friend Ben K. Weed of Old Flags Wanted View attachment 50151
more later
Steve

Point of interest
It appears to me that the U R 8 ring
has the same white tag with red letters
as the I R 72 from the past
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

From what I see so far I do NOT like it .There are now a lot of fake / reproduction Fahna rings out there now.
The best way to know , of course is to have a real example in your hands for study. Once you have a real one in your hands
it is early to spot a reproduction. I am lucky to own several original Imperial German regt./ Batl unit rings.
Two that I own are still on the original fahna poles with flags. Several of the ones that I have came from the Jan K. Kube
special sale back in 1999.Once I was offer a repo ring for a unit of which I already owed the real one.
As far as the U R 8 ring; First I would do the following ;
1.see if the U R 8 flag is in the DHM
2. check to see if the U R 8 flag was taken to Russia after WWII
Here is an example of real I R 72 / F B ring on the right
the copy ( while well done ) is on the left
they just didn't get it right
Photo work done by my late collector friend Ben K. Weed of Old Flags Wanted View attachment 50151
more later
Steve

Here are several of my unit rings .
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

I once saw a ring for H R 17
the problem with that is the real unit ring is still on the flag
the same story for H R 4
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

If this is something that you can follow, I don't know.
To show in person with a real ring in hand is easy to follow
to try and write about it is not so easy.
When an original ring is applied to the flagpole
there is a metal flange that goes behind the ring
thus, when the 3 nails are driven into the pole to secure the ring
the flange is covered by the ring, an overlap.
After the original ring is removed from the pole many years later
the flange is still bright with all of it's original finish.
the exposed balance of the outside of the ring has aged
with the many years of use and has the dull patina
This is what I have seen
Steve

 

[Eichenblatt]

If this is something that you can follow, I don't know.
To show in person with a real ring in hand is easy to follow
to try and write about it is not so easy.
When an original ring is applied to the flagpole
there is a metal flange that goes behind the ring
thus, when the 3 nails are driven into the pole to secure the ring
the flange is covered by the ring, an overlap.
After the original ring is removed from the pole many years later
the flange is still bright with all of it's original finish.
the exposed balance of the outside of the ring has aged
with the many years of use and has the dull patina
This is what I have seen
Steve

Thank you very much Steve.
Your guidance and comments in determining the originality of these rings are invaluable.
I think I now know what area to move in to make preliminary determinations.
The DHM checks deserve special attention.
Thanks again for your time.
My best regards.
Piotr

 

[KAGGR#1]

Thank you very much Steve.
Your guidance and comments in determining the originality of these rings are invaluable.
I think I now know what area to move in to make preliminary determinations.
The DHM checks deserve special attention.
Thanks again for your time.
My best regards.
Piotr

DHM has a list of the flags that they have
One night I stayed up late and made a list of the flags
now if I can just find it
I do have a list of the flags taken to Moscow at the end of WWII
When I can I will check it for you
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

From what I see so far I do NOT like it .There are now a lot of fake / reproduction Fahna rings out there now.
The best way to know , of course is to have a real example in your hands for study. Once you have a real one in your hands
it is early to spot a reproduction. I am lucky to own several original Imperial German regt./ Batl unit rings.
Two that I own are still on the original fahna poles with flags. Several of the ones that I have came from the Jan K. Kube
special sale back in 1999.Once I was offer a repo ring for a unit of which I already owed the real one.
As far as the U R 8 ring; First I would do the following ;
1.see if the U R 8 flag is in the DHM
2. check to see if the U R 8 flag was taken to Russia after WWII
Here is an example of real I R 72 / F B ring on the right
the copy ( while well done ) is on the left
they just didn't get it right
Photo work done by my late collector friend Ben K. Weed of Old Flags Wanted View attachment 50151
more later
Steve

They forgot the dot behind the 2
Steve

 

[Eichenblatt]

They forgot the dot behind the 2
Steve

That's right, the dot is missing.

 

[Eichenblatt]

DHM has a list of the flags that they have
One night I stayed up late and made a list of the flags
now if I can just find it
I do have a list of the flags taken to Moscow at the end of WWII
When I can I will check it for you
Steve

I will be forever grateful.

 

[KAGGR#1]

I will be forever grateful.

I have located my list of the I G flags
that were looted by the Russians at the end of WWII
and taken back to Moscow
Sine the Russians have the U R 8 flag
IMO it is very, very doubtful that the ring shown
could be original. I think that this pretty much
proves it to be a copy
The ring info shown on the right side of the page
shows how the ring would be engraved
the VIII . U . R . is the way the old ring was issued
since the person who compiled the list
put both the old and the new
I think that he was unsure as to which ring was on the flagpole.
So, no need to check the DHM inventory list
as we now know that the flag is in Russia
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

The location of the flags during WWII had a lot to do with
which ones the Russians took.
Steve

 

[Khukri]

Steve;
-do you have an idea where following Standards are?
-Leib-Kürassier-Regiment Nr.1
and the
-Kürassier Regiment Königin (Pommersches) Nr.2
Thank you!
Francis

 

[KAGGR#1]

Steve;
-do you have an idea where following Standards are?
-Leib-Kürassier-Regiment Nr.1
and the
-Kürassier Regiment Königin (Pommersches) Nr.2
Thank you!
Francis

Francis ;
Yes , in part I do .
Both flags of the 1 L K R 1 were looted by the Russians at the end of WWII
and taken to Moscow and trooped in their famous Victory Parade.
After the parade all of the Imperial German and 3rd Reich flags were
deposited on the steps on Lenin 's tomb
Then put in storage or on display in a Russian Museum
some years back a dealer was able to strike a deal with the museum
to buy them a system they needed for the museum .This would have been after the fall
of the Soviet Union. So then he was allowed X number of time in the storage basement
and select hat flags that he wanted in payment .Two of the flags that he selected were
both flags of the 1 L K R 1 .They came to the USA and were then sold to a private collector
in Germany. They are still as far as I know in that Private collection. I have photos that I will post later.

K R 2 flag I am not sure without checking my info. I will see what I can find out.

I have the flag of K R 7. I call it the "old muster " designed in a square. One of a kind, no other flag
was designed that way and in that color. " I yield to no one, not even the Sun "
Black & white photo of the K R 7 flag in use is a copy made for me by a German collector ho did a great
book on the I G Cavalry in photos
View attachment K R 7.jpeg
Steve

 

[GardeUlan]

I have located my list of the I G flags
that were looted by the Russians at the end of WWII
and taken back to Moscow
Sine the Russians have the U R 8 flag
IMO it is very, very doubtful that the ring shown
could be original. I think that this pretty much
proves it to be a copy
The ring info shown on the right side of the page
shows how the ring would be engraved
the VIII . U . R . is the way the old ring was issued
since the person who compiled the list
put both the old and the new
I think that he was unsure as to which ring was on the flagpole.
So, no need to check the DHM inventory list
as we now know that the flag is in Russia View attachment 50207
Steve

I‘m by far not the expert in flags, but if I’m not mistaken Helmut Weitze offered a couple of months ago the UR 8 standard. You can still see a picture, when you scroll down the highlights section. I remember it since my mother was born in Gumbinnen.

Best wishes

GardeUlan

 

[Eichenblatt]

I have located my list of the I G flags
that were looted by the Russians at the end of WWII
and taken back to Moscow
Sine the Russians have the U R 8 flag
IMO it is very, very doubtful that the ring shown
could be original. I think that this pretty much
proves it to be a copy
The ring info shown on the right side of the page
shows how the ring would be engraved
the VIII . U . R . is the way the old ring was issued
since the person who compiled the list
put both the old and the new
I think that he was unsure as to which ring was on the flagpole.
So, no need to check the DHM inventory list
as we now know that the flag is in Russia View attachment 50207
Steve

Thank you very much for your time and knowledge provided Steve, you have helped me tremendously, respectfully.
Piotr

 

[KAGGR#1]

I‘m by far not the expert in flags, but if I’m not mistaken Helmut Weitze offered a couple of months ago the UR 8 standard. You can still see a picture, when you scroll down the highlights section. I remember it since my mother was born in Gumbinnen.

Best wishes

GardeUlan

Totally possible.
I forgot that Weitze told me that he did get some things out of Russia.
He was offering a couple of Sakular Parade Banners.
Odd that if it did come out of Russia, that it was not still on the flagpole
Thanks
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

Totally possible.
I forgot that Weitze told me that he did get some things out of Russia.
He was offering a couple of Sakular Parade Banners.
Odd that if it did come out of Russia, that it was not still on the flagpole
Thanks
Steve

My list of flags that are / were in Russia was put together some years ago.
Over the years since some of the flags might have made their way out.
But I had heard that no more flags were to leave ?
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

Steve;
-do you have an idea where following Standards are?
-Leib-Kürassier-Regiment Nr.1
and the
-Kürassier Regiment Königin (Pommersches) Nr.2
Thank you!
Francis

I am still working on the flag of K R 2. Before WWII it was in Potsdam in the Temple.
The Russians did not get it. I know some of the flags were moved to protect them.
The K R flags that went to Russia were ; both of the flags of 1 L K R 1 ; K R 3 & K R 5
Steve