Palestine Theater M1896 Tropenhelm

RON

RON

Well-known member
Hello fellow collectors,

I’m happy to share my latest acquisition: an M1896 Tropenhelm as worn by the Asia Corps in the Palestine theater 1914-1918 (German expeditionary force in the Levant — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Corps)

Apparently what distinguishes it from its East African counterpart is the large cockade worn on the (right) side…

Unfortunately there’s a tear where the embossed maker’s mark was on the inner leather rim and only remnants of it can be seen… Bortfeldt?

I’ve been looking for similar white wash tropical pith helmets in period photos of German imperial troops operating in the Levant during WW1 to no avail. I hope someone here has one…
 

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Hi, Ron--
I didn't know if I should say something, but I felt compelled to offer my two cents. I am not an expert on anything, but I have collected and researched tropical helmets for more than 25 years. My feeling is that this is a French Model 1878 helmet with a cockade added and fake stamps.

Many of the tropical helmets of this era were very similar, but I've seen no shortage of supposed "Imperial German" sun helmets that are actually American, French, or even Italian M28 helmets. There are subtle differences, but everything I see in the liner, the type of cork spacers, and the brass parts looks more French to me than German.

I admit I may be wrong, but I would recommend another set of eyes and return it if I am proven correct. A French M1878 helmet sells for around $400 to $500, just as an FYI. I bought mine in Paris in 2007.

Here is a link to my MilitarySunHelmets.com website and an article on French helmets:

Peter
 
Peter_Suciu said:
Hi, Ron--
I didn't know if I should say something, but I felt compelled to offer my two cents. I am not an expert on anything, but I have collected and researched tropical helmets for more than 25 years. My feeling is that this is a French Model 1878 helmet with a cockade added and fake stamps.

Many of the tropical helmets of this era were very similar, but I've seen no shortage of supposed "Imperial German" sun helmets that are actually American, French, or even Italian M28 helmets. There are subtle differences, but everything I see in the liner, the type of cork spacers, and the brass parts looks more French to me than German.

I admit I may be wrong, but I would recommend another set of eyes and return it if I am proven correct. A French M1878 helmet sells for around $400 to $500, just as an FYI. I bought mine in Paris in 2007.

Here is a link to my MilitarySunHelmets.com website and an article on French helmets:

Peter
Click to expand...
I know zero about these helmets , but I did not have
a "good feeling " when I saw it .I will say nothing
My question would be , why is part of the band missing ?
I see a crown above the missing part and a logo below the
missing part
Steve
 
I hate to say anything but those stamps on the flag look like reproductions as well and the aging looks very artificial maybe tee or coffee. Hopefully you bought it for peanuts and are just using it as a backdrop which it definitely works as. (y)

I'm not a flag expert but have just sold several very rare Imperial Flags to an expert collector in Texas and during the process I really learned a lot from him and some of the Flag collectors over on WAF. To be sure I would post it there, those guys are very educated down to the stitch with flags and will give you an honest opinion. best regards John Josef
 
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Hello all.
I actually bought both pieces from a trustworthy source—the Collector’s Guild—and these come with a lifetime warranty like all their other pieces. I’m still intrigued by the remnants of the maker’s mark; i bet if deciphered, these would elucidate the mystery as to the origin of the helmet…
 
KAGGR#1 said:
I know zero about these helmets , but I did not have
a "good feeling " when I saw it .I will say nothing
My question would be , why is part of the band missing ?
I see a crown above the missing part and a logo below the
missing part
Steve
Click to expand...
Hi Steve,
Sharpo eye you got there. It looks indeed like a crown. Any idea what the missing parts of this Maker's Mark are?
 
Just another warning sign given from the Helmet is that it has a size marking of 4 1/2 which equates to the size 7 in US. German manufactures and Germans in general do not use this type of numbering system but French do.

A German Manufacture would have marked it with 56 to show the size being 56 cm.

Also another red flag for me would be where an otherwise very nice liner has a ripped out piece exactly in the spot where the name or writing would have been to Identifying the manufacture.

Sorry but I think Peter has identified the helmet correctly as being of French origin.

His link is also very convincing when compared to French helmets its identical.

I do not accuse the seller of internally misleading things like this happen all the time.
 
Peter_Suciu said:
Hi, Ron--
I didn't know if I should say something, but I felt compelled to offer my two cents. I am not an expert on anything, but I have collected and researched tropical helmets for more than 25 years. My feeling is that this is a French Model 1878 helmet with a cockade added and fake stamps.

Many of the tropical helmets of this era were very similar, but I've seen no shortage of supposed "Imperial German" sun helmets that are actually American, French, or even Italian M28 helmets. There are subtle differences, but everything I see in the liner, the type of cork spacers, and the brass parts looks more French to me than German.

I admit I may be wrong, but I would recommend another set of eyes and return it if I am proven correct. A French M1878 helmet sells for around $400 to $500, just as an FYI. I bought mine in Paris in 2007.

Here is a link to my MilitarySunHelmets.com website and an article on French helmets:

Peter
Click to expand...
Hi Peter,
It's good to hear from you after such a long time.
To be frank, I was hoping you would jump in as you did save me from making many mistakes in the past when it comes to imperial sun helmets... Back in 2013, I even returned what turned out to be an M1886 French modern day conversion to German Ostasiatisches Expeditionskorps with a Reichsadler added to the front, after sharing photos with you here on the forum...

Back to today's concern... the first thing I did before buying my helmet this time was to scrutinize over and over again photos of the French models on your site and honestly, I still see that the shapes differ and so do the interiors... Like you said, there were lots of similarities and armies copied each other back then...

As there are no actual profile/side photos of the French M1878 or M1886 (or their British equivalents) on your site, would it be possible for you to share some here so I can compare with mine? As for the fake stamps you mentioned, did you mean the embossed partial maker's mark or the "4 1/2" size sticker, because I don't see any other markings in there? Lastly, would you happen to know anything about that partial maker's mark with a crown on top? I'm attaching photos again for reference. When your time permits...
 

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RON said:
Hi Peter,
It's good to hear from you after such a long time.
To be frank, I was hoping you would jump in as you did save me from making many mistakes in the past when it comes to imperial sun helmets... Back in 2013, I even returned what turned out to be an M1886 French modern day conversion to German Ostasiatisches Expeditionskorps with a Reichsadler added to the front, after sharing photos with you here on the forum...

Back to today's concern... the first thing I did before buying my helmet this time was to scrutinize over and over again photos of the French models on your site and honestly, I still see that the shapes differ and so do the interiors... Like you said, there were lots of similarities and armies copied each other back then...

As there are no actual profile/side photos of the French M1878 or M1886 (or their British equivalents) on your site, would it be possible for you to share some here so I can compare with mine? As for the fake stamps you mentioned, did you mean the embossed partial maker's mark or the "4 1/2" size sticker, because I don't see any other markings in there? Lastly, would you happen to know anything about that partial maker's mark with a crown on top? I'm attaching photos again for reference. When your time permits...
Click to expand...
Busy day, but I'll have some time later to take some photos. I honestly can't tell one SS decal from another and don't understand how some guys can, but when it comes to the shapes of sun helmets it is something I can just spot.
 
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JPT said:
Yes, I think you're right, unfortunately. Another great trick from those damned, stupid sales sites.
I think it was repainted with sneaker dye and given a See Bataillonl eagle.
For example >> https://www.ima-usa.com/products/or...mpany-badge-size-7-1-4?variant=31953344299077
You should be very careful with this kind of headgear
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The M1887 was white, while the M1889 was khaki. I've seen both covered with pipe clay, blanco, etc.

I can't tell you how many American helmets have been mocked up as Imperial German. These high-end dealers should know better.
 
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