Prussian garde wappen

[Pickelhaube]

A friend of mine asked for information about a prussian garde helmet that he just bought. I tought at first glance it was a one year volunteer but somebody else was saying that the wappen belongs to a beambte. The helmet itself is private purchase and it's maker marked.

I've never heard that beambtenhelmets have a garde eagle, but i could be wrong.

Greetings Pickelhaube

 

[Pickelhaube]

The person said it's a beambte adler because the ending if the scroll is under the banner instead of above.

 

[b.loree]

I have never heard of there being a "Garde Beampte". My first thought, is that this is an older Garde wappen based on the tail feather configuration. However, I am no expert.

 

[2nd.Leibhusar]

I've seen this helmet today from your German friend.
Unfortunately the Garde plate is a ( bad) total fake.
If the star is original ( but I'm not convinced), the white has been repainted.

On the inside the threads on the helmet plate are new, bare metal, and the screws are rusted...

The helmet is simply assembled from original and replica parts.

Luckily, he didn't pay too much for it.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

I agree. However, I find this plaque to be of fairly good quality, enough to fool an inexperienced amateur. Once again, while there may be some doubts when viewed from the front, there are none when viewed from the back.

 

[911car]

I have never heard of there being a "Garde Beampte". My first thought, is that this is an older Garde wappen based on the tail feather configuration. However, I am no expert.

I cannot remember seeing a Garde Beamte helmet in the flesh either, although these necessarily existed.

Helmut Weitze has one for sale, described as a Beamte (Zahlmeister) helmet in a Garde Fuesilier regiment, but without a small eagle on the plate. I suppose that one was identified as a Beamte helmet because of the silver chinscales...

Prussian Pickelhaube for a Paymaster in the Garde-Füsilier-Regiment, 5. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß or Garde-Pionier-Bataillon - Prussia - Imperial Germany & Weimar Republic: uniforms, spike helmets, etc. - Military Antiques

Prussian Pickelhaube for a Paymaster in the Garde-Füsilier-Regiment, 5. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß or Garde-Pionier-Bataillon - Circa 1910. Leather helmet, complete with all fittings in silver finish. At front the silver-plated large

www.weitze.com

 

[911car]

The person said it's a beambte adler because the ending if the scroll is under the banner instead of above.

The scroll on officer Garde plates was discussed at length in a recent thread, and the conclusion was that the vast majority had the extremity of the scroll in up position. A few exceptions were presented with it curling below the banner. GardeUlan showed a beautiful helmet in that configuration, but it was a General helmet. No chance to be mistaken as a Beamte helmet.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Je ne me souviens pas non plus avoir vu un casque de la Garde Beamte en vrai, bien que ceux-ci aient nécessairement existé.

Helmut Weitze en vend un, décrit comme un casque de Beamte (Zahlmeister) d'un régiment de fusiliers de la Garde, mais sans l'aigle sur la plaque. Je suppose qu'il a été identifié comme tel grâce à ses jugulaires argentées…

Prussian Pickelhaube for a Paymaster in the Garde-Füsilier-Regiment, 5. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß or Garde-Pionier-Bataillon - Prussia - Imperial Germany & Weimar Republic: uniforms, spike helmets, etc. - Military Antiques

Prussian Pickelhaube for a Paymaster in the Garde-Füsilier-Regiment, 5. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß or Garde-Pionier-Bataillon - Circa 1910. Leather helmet, complete with all fittings in silver finish. At front the silver-plated large

www.weitze.com

Oui, mais il pourrait aussi s'agir d'un « apothicaire » de la Garde...
À mon avis, les ferrures en maillechort ne le rendent pas nécessairement adapté au GPB ou au GFB. Un « Beamte » pour la Garde Grenadier serait également entièrement argenté.

 

[911car]

Oui, mais il pourrait aussi s'agir d'un « apothicaire » de la Garde...
À mon avis, les ferrures en maillechort ne le rendent pas nécessairement adapté au GPB ou au GFB. Un « Beamte » pour la Garde Grenadier serait également entièrement argenté.

Clovis 57 mentions appropriately that Weitze's helmet could also be for a pharmacist. In fact, a pharmacist in the Imperial Army is also commonly referred to as a "Beamter". However, a pharmacist helmet should sport the small eagle, whereas the Unterzahlmeister helmet, as described by Weitze, escaped that rule.

 

[Pickelhaube]

Thanks for the info. I'm gonna tell him that he has to look for another wappen. The owner told e that the maker of the helmet is from hessen, so maybe he can go look for a hessen wappen.

Greeting Pickelhaube

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Hello,
I see a round tip base, so it can't be a Hessian helmet. Also, the spacing and positioning of the plate mounting holes vary depending on the plate. We would need to see the helmet without its plate.
Here is the type of eagle that would be needed, from what I can see..
or