Looking for Trench Club/Mace info

[Flemgunner]

Hey y’all, I’m starting a new hobby, reproducing WWI trench clubs and while I do have info on some, I’d like to make a bunch of different types.
I do know about the books that are out there but they are a, challenge, to find.

So, if anyone has any in their collection I was wondering if I could get measurements from you.
I’ve just about finished the first one, there are a couple changes I want to make regarding the leather as well as the over all finish and “aging” but it’s a learning curve.

Thanks much y’all.

 

[cromwell]

This is my collection

 

[Flemgunner]

Very cool!

 

[Flemgunner]

Very cool!

Anyway I could get some measurements and more pictures?

 

[CLOVIS 57]

There were "official" models and "artisanal" models.

These are from an Italian museum.


For example, I don't have the dimensions.

 

[John Josef]

No offence to your new hobby of making reproductions and I wish you well but in the Hobby of collecting Militaria reproductions are the enemy.

On this forum we spend countless hours giving opinions and trying to authenticate items for the membership and ourselves.

Countless reproductions now FLOOD the market and old reproductions from many years ago now look more like originals and are fooling young and old collectors alike.

I wish you well in your new hobby but for Militaria collectors to help in anyway with the making of reproductions goes against the very basics of being a collector of original Militaria.

I'm not accusing anyone of deliberately trying to defraud anyone but once an item enters the market, there are those who make a living at it, so no offence but I won't be helping with pictures or measurements.

MFG John Josef

 

[coert65]

I agree with John Josef on this subject.
Well written John! (I was also contemplating writing something along these lines, but I'm no great writer doing such)

Regards, Coert.

 

[Lars13]

there are those who make a living at it

Hi,
Your intentions can be honest, but there are plenty out there who are not.
An example of a fake I bought in the Somme region in France. I had my concerns about the originality due to the War Department arrow and the artisan grooves in the handle, but all the major and some of the minor museums that I visited had one of these trench clubs on display.
Not only carefully crafted and aged, but also distributed to most of the museums to convince collectors that this is the real deal.
Unsurprisingly, when I went back to the Somme a couple of years laters these trench clubs had disappeared from all the museums.
It wasn't a great financial loss, but nevertheless not very nice to be conned out of my hard earned money.
Lesson learned: museums don't have very thorough vetting procedures for the originality of items.
Regards,
Lars

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Yes, for manufactured regulation models there are no identification problems, the difficulty arises with homemade batons and trench club and While.

Here are two official German models:




Here is the Austro-Hungarian regulatory model.



And here is a non-regulation club, but the period photo shows that it also existed at the time and that not all of them are modern inventions.

 

[gino1]

Hello, regarding this, I know that some Trench Club/Mace are marked on the end of the steel head; those that were definitely original are stamped with a letter or number.

 

[John Josef]

Great pictures and info I can't wait till all those newly discovered originals start showing up on ebay.

 

[gino1]

Great pictures and info I can't wait till all those newly discovered originals start showing up on ebay.

Hello, did you buy this on eBay? As far as I know, this is a copy. The wood is too new, I think.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Hello, did you buy this on eBay? As far as I know, this is a copy. The wood is too new, I think.

This should not be a criterion for expertise. Often, "fakes" disguised as authentic ones are even more "rotten" and artificially corroded than the genuine ones.

 

[John Josef]

Hello, did you buy this on eBay? As far as I know, this is a copy. The wood is too new, I think.

Hello,
No absolutely not.

My comment was intended to be a bit sarcastic in a joking way and I had hoped it would be understood in that way.

I have already expressed my concern about the making and selling of reproductions of very rare items in this case trench/clubs.

There are certain ways of telling if an item is original and the last thing we should want to do as a community of ORIGINAL MILITARIA collectors is to tell and show the manufactures of reproductions what they are.

IMO this will directly help them make better reproductions which is something I would think we all do not want to do.

I know I'm outspoken on my dislike for reproductions and the people who make them with the intent to deceive and enrich themselves through this deception.

I really feel for the collectors who are ripped off daily by these people and the last thing I want to do is help them make better reproductions.

again, I'm not accusing anyone of deliberately trying to defraud anyone but once an item enters the market, there are those who make a living at misrepresenting reproductions, so no offence but I won't be helping with pictures or measurements from my personal collection.

MFG John Josef