1842 Headquarters Guard?
- Thread starter Nacuaa
- Start date
kuerassier
Well-known member
Leibgendarmerie, and not a M42.
Kaiser Wilhelm II
Well-known member
If anyone was wondering, that hefty $900 price tag, with inflation, translates to $8,644 in modern times.
Nacuaa
Active member
That makes perfect sense. I know the uniform but never considered the helmet and fittings. I've never seen another one so actually, I don't think $8000.00 would be too far out of line with what dealers ask.
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kuerassier
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Doug B
Well-known member
Google translate;
Prussia, Sergeant's helmet from the Cavalry Guards Squadron M/1901. Nickel-plated skull with gold-plated mounts. A single-fluted front visor and a single-piece rear visor, both lined with red fabric. A high, fluted screw-in peak on a peak neck with a cruciform vent and a flat crosspiece with four round-head screws. A high-domed, multi-piece, silver-plated and partially gold-plated guards star, the round band bearing the motto "Suum Cuique" is not enameled. A leather sweatband and brown silk lining show signs of wear. Uncleaned, original condition. Extremely rare! Only a few examples produced!
The Cavalry Guards Squadron was established on October 1, 1901, and assigned to the Life Guards Hussar Regiment in Potsdam. Disbanded in 1905, the note in the 1905 rank list reads "arrived on October 1, 1905." This is clearly a sergeant's helmet, not an officer's helmet (as depicted and incorrectly described in J. Hilsenbeck's book "German Officers' Helmets from the Imperial Era 1870-1918," Volume 2, Steinach-Verlag, Reutlingen, 2007, p. 211). The front and rear visors of the helmet offered here are enlisted, although the highly domed guards star is not enameled. Officers' helmets have a double-fluted front visor, and the rear visor is multi-part, as is the guards star enameled white under the motto. Officer helmets of the Jäger zu Pferd (hunters on horseback) were supposed to be blued, but were worn by the officers in a shiny, nickel-plated finish (to be more similar to the cuirassiers), and the sergeants did the same.
This one is on auction from Kube later this week. Discussing w Tony S he couldn’t find any reference on it, what are the thoughts on this?
Liebgendarmerie as well or as stated in the catalogue?
Nacuaa
Active member
Thank you! The one appearing in the SS catalog appears to be a M43 Kurassier helmet with gilded fittings and 1860 guard star.
kuerassier
Well-known member
As stated in the catalogue.
Doug B
Well-known member
Thank you.
Nacuaa
Active member
Since we're discussing related things. I always wondered about this helmet that appeared at auction 10+ years ago. I love the appearance of it. It was listed as a Prussian Guard Meldereiter Helmet 1899. I distinctly remember it being described as reconstituted with some added parts however. What were Meldereiters and how were they distinct from Gendarmerie and JzuP? Do any members know anyone who has a helmet from this unit in their collection?
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Doug B
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This used to be mine, and was not all original but made from component pieces both original and reproduction, was a great display piece of something that is pretty much impossible to find. Bought it from a collector in Vancouver and it sold at auction along with the rest of my collection when I sold off my first Imperial collection over a decade + ago. I do not know who owns it now.
Khukri
Well-known member
Meldereiter [singular and plural! No s added!]: translated: Dispatch rider
30 March 1895: formation of three Detachments Meldereiter. "Detachment-s" is the correct German word used for these units.
-one Garde.
-one for the I.AK
-one for the XV.AK
31 March 1897: formation of two new Detachments
-XIV.AK
-XVII.AK
31 March 1897: these Detachments change name: now: "Jäger zu Pferde Detachments".
25 March 1899: these JzPf Detachments are reinforced and are now named Eskadrone Jäger zu Pferde. Eskadron-e is the correct German name for this units. From the French: Escadron-s. And if there is need for translation: call these units Squadron-s.
-In 1900 and 1901 eight new Eskadrone Jäger zu Pferde are formed.
-In 1905 the Eskadrone Numbers 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 form the Regiment Jäger zu Pferde Nr.1. Kaiser Wilhelm II become the honorary Colonel of this Regiment. The "Chef". The Regiment is now *"Regiment Königs Jäger zu Pferde Nr.1"*
-Eskadrons Nrs 10 and 11 formed-together with the Garde Eskadron-the Regt Jäger zu Pferde Nr.2
-Eskadrone Nrs 7, 14 and 15 formed the Regt Jäger zu Pferde Nr.3
In 1906: Eskadrone Nrs. 1 and 17 formed Regt Jäger zu Pferde Nr.4
The Regiments Nrs. 2, 3 and 4 are reinforced and now count five Eskadrone each.
1908 and 1910: formation of Regiments Jäger zu Pferde Nrs.5 and 6
1913: formation of Regiment Jäger zu Pferde Nr.7
1.October 1913: formation of the Regiments Jäger zu Pferde Numbers 8 to 13.
[Translated from Jean-Louis Larcade's personal archive binders]
*Picture: 1913: Kaisermanöver V. and VI. AK, close to the Dutch-Belgian border...
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Nacuaa
Active member
Thank you! This clears things up a lot concerning the Meldereiter which always confused me. So here we are looking at two helmets from the guard unit of the Jäger zu Pferde? There are differences in trim color though. One helmet is chemically darkened. Changes in regulations or reflects transition from Meldereiter to JzPf?
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Khukri
Well-known member
Before the Jäger zu Pferde Detachements were formed; the name was Meldereiter/Dispatch Riders Detachment! Belonging to the Staff of the AK. Armee Korps/Army Corps.
-I chronologicaly listed things up.
My pleasure.
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Nacuaa
Active member
With their origins in Meldereiter/Dispatch Riders Detachment, what was the purpose of expanding Jäger zu Pferde into entire regiments considering that the cavalry already possessed regiments of hussars, dragoons, uhlans, and kurassiers? The few images I see in postcards and photographs show them as small units on patrol as well as charging in formation with the lance. When I purchased a war time Jäger zu Pferde helmet as a youth, I was told it belonged to a dispatch rider. But it seems as though there are almost as many surviving wartime helmets as there are for kurassiers reflecting the shift to full regiments for deployment. Also, there is a painting of the kaiser wearing the guard version of the helmet like the one Doug B once had in his collection. I have never seen a photo of it. I don't think it is in the possession of Huis Doorn.
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KAGGR#1
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Did it sell ?
Steve
Doug B
Well-known member
Oh yes they all sold, the auction did quite well overall. Didn’t think over a decade later I’d be up to my neck in Imperial helmets again though or I would have kept a few lol. Like Al Pacino says, “Just when you think your out, they drag you right back in…”
Khukri
Well-known member
The Kaiser Manöver picture I posted above: it is the helmet the Kaiser is wearing in that picture that is kept in Huis Doorn. This helmet is pictured in the J-L. Larcade book chapter on the Kaiser's headgear. The finish is very special. No shiny nickle finish. Special chemically darkened. Watch the picture to compare the finish: Huis Doorn. Our visit 19th August 2022.
At the right: the Kaiser's helmet Kürassier Regiment "Königin" (Pommersches) Nr.2
-discription of the Kaiser's helmet for the "Königs" Jäger zu Pferde Regiment Nr.1. J-L. Larcade book, Volume II. Troupes à cheval/Mounted troops. Chapter 5. Page 77:
-translation:
"The helmet body/shell is coppered steel-silvered and receiving its final finish. (Hydrogen sulfide proces). In French "vieil argent/old silver". The spike base cylinder part is most certainly darkened as well; probably due to natural oxidation of the Silver plating".
-and note the specific adaptation (connected by elastic band) of the chinstrap halves on the Kaiser's headgear. Enabling him to adjust these one-handed.
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Khukri
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Who can tell?