7th U.R. Tschapka Feldzeichen

pointystuff

Active member
http://www.ebay.de/itm/100-orginale-Ulanen-Tschapka-Ul-Rgt-Saarbrucken-TOP-TOP-/300672015528?pt=Militaria&hash=item460172dca8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With the metal ring on the Kokarde, is the plain cloth field badge correct--or should it be an officer's wire type?

Also, wouldn't the wearer of this type Kokarde be entitled to wear a Tschapka with a caplines hook and scales attached with rosettes instead of posts?
 
Hello,

It seems good, but a regimental marking could let us know if that's an original UR7.
I do not like the profile, not round enough above the ears, and the inside seems to be an "Eigentum's" one.

And that is false :

mit der org. zitronengelben Rabatte, die nur dieses Regiment hatte, im Gegensatz zu den häufigen goldgelben Rabatten

The Goldenrabatten were the scarciest, only worn on GUR 2 Tschapkas after 1903.
 
So the metal ringed Kokarde does not mean a privately-purchased wire field badge, etc. should be present?
 
A wire pattern Feldzeichen (officers' pattern) would be correct for the cockade shown here. There is a mismatch on this helmet.

Regards
Glenn
 
Would a volunteer Ulan paying his own way be allowed to wear the metal-ringed Kokarde with a twisted cord Feldzeichen?
 
Having given a better look at the pics of the helmet, I feel it's an enlisted man helmet, but worn by a NCO, not a senior NCO, probably a sergeant,
I've often noticed they had sorts of EM helmet on which you find some NCO stuff, maybe worn during the war or just after, at the occasion of annual parades, as veterans, .... The feldzeichen is definitely EM.... but could go for a sergeant I suppose ? It's quite common to find this type of EM-NCO helmets, especially direct from German familys, I've seen several of these mixed helmets, I suppose it was a national sport after the war, for EM who has been promoted to some NCO rank during the conflict, after they had received their stahlhelm and when the parade helmet was no longer usefull on the front and sent home....
I don't think the liner is NCO, it looks EM..... but I will soon have the helmet in hands and will confirm that,
There could be a marking inside the liner, the pics do not show much .... we'll see :) I had recently a nice surprise with a Wurtemberg hat, finding nice markings underneath the liner.... let's cross fingers ! :cool:
 
hello everybody,
the seller told me there wasn't any marks inside.....
but let's cross finger as you said.....if it's marked this has been a good deal...it's a rare helmet
pp
 
Would a volunteer Ulan paying his own way be allowed to wear the metal-ringed Kokarde with a twisted cord Feldzeichen?
 
Hi guys,

Here's what I was writing sometime ago on the French forum (HM) about this matter :

Les sous-officiers (oui ils existent, ils sont presque toujours oubliés) supérieurs portent un uniforme très proche de celui des officiers, comme les adjudants et adjudants chefs de l'armée française en 1914. Les autres sous-officiers portent un uniforme proche de la troupe, parfois fourni en partie par le corps, d'ordonnance donc. Le feldzeichen est différent de celui de la troupe, et de celui des officiers.

Les engagés d'un an et les aspirants sont équipés de façon hybrides entre uniforme de troupe et d'officier, voir le Larcade, c'est très bien décrit comme toujours. Page 22 et 23 tome II:
- L'engagé d'un an s'équipait à ses frais, donc par "achat privé". Il passait au bout d'un an dans la réserve et y évoluait vers le statut de sous-officier, de sous-officier supérieur, puis d'officier. Un casque d'engagé d'un an peut donc être assez évolutif suivant qu'on le trouve dans sa configuration initiale ou modifiée pour s'adapter à l'évolution du grade de son propriétaire...
- L'aspirant est un militaire d'active et est équipé donc en uniforme d'ordonnance, fourni par le corps. Il peut être autorisé à porter un casque d'officier, qu'il achéte alors à ses frais, voir description détaillée dans Larcade.

Let's try to translate this in good (?) english :oops:
Unteroffizier were divided into 2 main corps, with or without porteepée, to simplify: on one side the junior NCOs and on the other side the senior NCOs... senior NCOs, mainly vize-feldwebel and feldwebel, could wear a uniform very similar to the officer type, just like adjudant and adjudants chef in the French army in 1914... The junior NCO had to wear a uniform close to the enlisted man, privately purchased and probably sometimes provided by the quartermaster, since the wages of a young sergeant could certainly not sustain the purchase of the full kit, parade uniform and field gear, that's why we find NCO items marked after the regiment.... Of course a sergeant could, especially in war time, become a vize feldwebel..... if he was posted on the Champagne front or on the Russian front, we can assess that he could not go back to the tailor of his hometown, to purchase a more luxuous vize felddewel tschapska..... the only way to distinguish himself from a sergeant would have been to pick up some locally available offizer rosette..... This situation is also thrue for a corporal promoted sergeant..... Can we imagine that he would at once travel back to the logistics zone, some kilometers behind the front, to get his uniform changed ? He had just to find some stripes and to sew them on his EM uniform....

We also have the case of the one year volunteer, einjahrfreiwillige.... they wear a mixted uniform, made from officer and EM stuff, .... it's well described in the Larcade, if necessary I can try to translate that page.... on top of this situation, the volunteer was released after one year and was assigned in the reserve section, where he could move towards the NCO status, junior NCo, then senior NCO and finally reserve officer.....

Concerning the aspirant, I don't remember the word in English, he's an active military, and he's therefore equipped by the corps, he can be authorized to wear an officer type helmet, that he has to buy at his own expenses, ... that's again well described in Larcade's book.....

In conclusion, we can find a lot of hybrides helmets, some collectors change them to bring them back to the "regulation" or what they beleive to be the regulation, .... it's a bit a pity since in certain cases, when these helmets are untouched, they are the reflect of little know regulation, or the reflect of the local situation somewhere on the front, far from the military tailor, and also sometimes the reflect of the use after the war, during commemorative parades....

hope this helps, if you have any reaction on what I write, please feel free to give your opinion, I'm not sure that what I suppose is the ultimate truth :) and I would be happy to get more experienced collector to share their views :thumb up:

Steve
 
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