A Schaumburg Lippe Helmet

[festwagner]

Here is a helmet which didn't exist anymore in 1914, the helmet of the very small principauty of Schaumburg Lippe, 50 000 inhabitants.

Until 1897, mens of this country used to serve in the JR55/IIIB. The classical prussian helmet wears a specific Landkokarde, the Schaumburg-Lippe Landkokarde, white-red-blue.

This helmet is dated from 1896, so it could have really worn this cocade. Indeed, after 1897, the Schaumburg Lippe wasn't anymore used.

 

[kaiser]

That is a very clear marking in this helmet never seen sutch a cocade on a pickelhaube
Looks still nice concidering it has seen the field

Jonas

 

[coert65]

I really like this helmet, it has been there, and must be really a rare piece, considering the kokarde, which was in it's last year of use.

Congratulations, :bravo:

Greeting's, Coert

 

[badener]

You don't see that everyday!

 

[SkipperJohn]

Congratulations. Extremely rare helmet.

John :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Wow, nice find. Love that Kokarden

James

 

[pickelhauben]

Nice one !

 

[911car]

Impressive!

 

[Sandmann]

Congratulations, a really nice one :bravo:

 

[Lars13]

Hi,

Nice helmet and very nice regimental marking, but I don't think this combination of Kokarden is according to the regulations.

Before the institution of the deutsche Kokarde in 1897, enlisted men from certain states other than Prussia, serving in Prussian regiments, could wear the Kokarde of their own state (Landeskokarde) on the left side, in addition to the Prussian Kokarde on the right side (Bekleidungsordnung 1895, §39 and §158).

In the announcement of the deutsche Kokarde in 1897 in the Armee-Verordnungs-Blatt dated 22.3.1897, it is specified that the IIIrd battalion of I.R. 55 wears the Landeskokarde of Fürstentum Lippe on the left side, and the deutsche Kokarde on the right side. This is probably in recognition of the fact that the IIIrd battalion was stationed in Detmold (the capital of Fürstentum Lippe).

There is no association between IIIrd battalion I.R. 55 and Lippe Schaumburg, although in theory a soldier could have come from that state and served in the IIIrd battalion, and possibly worn a Schaumburg Lippe Kokarde on the left side (I haven't found any regulations confirming that men from Schaumburg Lippe could do so), would however have had a Prussian Kokarde on the right side.

Once the deutsche Kokarde was instated the IIIrd battalion would have worn the Landeskokarde of Lippe Detmold on the left (Lippe Detmold: yellow/red/red), and the deutsche Kokarde on the right.

Lars

 

[festwagner]

Hi Lars

I know for the cocade way of wearing. But the two cocades I put on my helmet come both from the same helmet, found in the area of Lille (France). The helmet, on which they were, was in very bad condition and the first guy who bought it decided to destroy the helmet to sell the metal parts and cocades (!).

So I have no clear explanation but this old Schaumburg Lippe Cocade must have been reused during WWI, maybe as ersatz ? Have the Kammer keep the old S-L cocades in their stores until WW I ?

That' s why I decided to not separe these two cocades (the schaumbourg and the Reich) which had a common history.

I was lucky to be able to buy this cocade. Before having it, I don't know this small state of Schaumburg Lippe !

 

[festwagner]

Otherwises I can put this cocade, which fits more with a 1914 helmet, always form Lippe, but this time from Lippe Detmold !

 

[poniatowski]

IMHO, the 'guy' who destroyed the original helmet, regardless of condition, is an idiot.

Ron

 

[Lars13]

You're a lucky man that can just pull a wonderful Lippe-Detmold Kokarde out of a drawer (insert jealousy emoji here), and have the correct helmet to put it on too.

What a shame that the old helmet was destroyed; having those two Kokarden on the original helmet would have been a piece of history showing that wartime tends to bend the rules.

I have only seen the S-L Kokarde on firemen's helmets, and as I wrote in theory they might have been worn in the army by other ranks from S-L before 1897.

Given the regimental stamp, I like the helmet better with the L-D Kokarde

Congratulations

 

[Jaap Verduijn]

This is the combination of helmet, stamps and Kokarde one dreams of! :thumb up:

 

[festwagner]

You're a lucky man that can just pull a wonderful Lippe-Detmold Kokarde out of a drawer (insert jealousy emoji here), and have the correct helmet to put it on too.

What a shame that the old helmet was destroyed; having those two Kokarden on the original helmet would have been a piece of history showing that wartime tends to bend the rules.

I have only seen the S-L Kokarde on firemen's helmets, and as I wrote in theory they might have been worn in the army by other ranks from S-L before 1897.

Given the regimental stamp, I like the helmet better with the L-D Kokarde

Congratulations

Yes it is a real shame to have made disappear such a scarce helmet. I tried to have the picture of the helmet before destruction but the seller didn't have them anymore.
We will have no exact answer of why of how this S-L cocade was used..

With these 2 Lippe cocade, I need now find another helmet with JR 55 III B marking ! :evil:

 

[festwagner]

I have only seen the S-L Kokarde on firemen's helmets,

Congratulations

And has this firemen cocade exactly the same shape as the S-L cocade I show ?

 

[Lars13]

Pictures taken when I visited the Landesmuseum in Bückeburg some years ago:

Schaumburg Lippe Feuerwehr

Schaumburg Lippe Kokarde

 

[festwagner]

Thanks. The blue is different. And I suppose that the central hole for fixing the cocade must be different.

 

[b.loree]

Festwagner: Please send the picture of your helmet markings to Col. Joe Robinson so he can put that on our regimental markings site. I just checked, and we do not have markings from JR55 on our list. Thank you :thumb up: