A special M17 stahlhelm

Adler

Adler

New member
This seems to be an international purchase… I bought as a Belgian a German helmet at a militaria show in France and the seller was Dutch.
However, that’s not the most interesting thing about this helmet. Maybe some of you know that Doug B. had posted his first ever German helmet with this horizontal red stripe from lug to lug on another forum… well this one seems to be a very close relative.

Both helmets have this interesting red stripe and they are both double camouflaged. The black lines from the first camo can be seen very well through the second layer of camo. In my opinion the colors are also exactly the same on both helmets.
According to someone who commented on Doug’s thread, this red stripe should be a wound stripe as used by the Austro-Hungarian army. He had two Austrian helmets with a red stripe in his collection.

Since I have only seen two of these (German) helmets and since they are both configured in the same way, I don’t see the connection with the Austrians. I sure hope someone can enlighten this or can provide some sort of explanation for this red stripe. Other possibilities that were mentioned was stretcher bearer, rank distinction, special service,...

This M17 helmet is an ET64 (producer: Eisenhüttenwerke Thale A.G.and size: 64), and is also named but I can’t read it… After playing a bit with Photoshop, the “AK” mark and an ink (paint) stamp “64” also become visible.
Anyway, no matter what the red stripe stands for, I’m very happy with this helmet. Hope you gentlemen also like it…

Adler



















 
I think it is a fake and you should send it to me for proper disposal:) The red stripe must have some significant meaning. As usual you post the best items,
 
Very nice helmet :bravo: , just a wild guess could it be a übung(practise)helmet i have seen German übung gas masks with red stripes on the filter and canister.
 
Westfront said:
Very nice helmet :bravo: , just a wild guess could it be a übung(practise)helmet i have seen German übung gas masks with red stripes on the filter and canister.
Click to expand...
That is an interesting thought, maybe something on the line of a maneuver helmet
 
Red stripes on the gasmask filters: after a while the filters become saturated with moisture and are useless for operational use.Red stripes mark our training filters in the Belgian Army up to date. The ops filters are sealed untill they expire. (To be marked with the red stripe....)
But the helmets? Perhaps mark for a Squad or Platoon leader ?

These filters contain activated carbon.
Francis
 
Nice helmet Karel, congrats! :thumb up:
Yes this red line could mean this is a tester for the efficiency of the cammo.


Here is a practice gummi. (Sehr selten :wink: )





 
Thank you very much for your comments guys!

Those are plausible thoughts also =D> , meanwhile after cracking my brains :-k for over a week, I'm also thinking in that direction... but still want solid proof for it of course :-k ... Please help me find that evidence guys!

Adler
 
It really would be easier for you to send the helmet to me and then you would not have to worry about it. 50 years ago when I started collecting, the chances of finding an answer to this question was about 0%, but now I think it may be about 80%. The amount of information that is available now is really astounding.
 
Solid proof ? well hang on ,let me just call my dad ,his majesty Willhelm II ,and I ‘ll get back to you :D :D :D

Even though I am still a novice on the matter, I would venture to say that I’m with Westfront and Spiker.
What is the point of camouflaging if you are going to mess it up with a red strip?
Unless this is an example on how to paint the rest.
 
Thank you all for your comments!

I posted this helmet on a few other forums and Chip M. pointed out that the soldier's name is Rogg and 10/124 should mean 10th company of IR124 (Wurtemberg). Meanwhile I've been reading a bit about IR124 and it seems they fought first in Argonne, than in Flanders and after that in the Somme region... Also very interesting was that IR124 was in Peronne between 25 and 31 July 1918. They stayed in the region until 11th November... If you can understand some German, here's the link to this interesting article: http://genwiki.genealogy.net/IR_124#Uniformen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Große feindliche Offensive (Juli bis November 1918)
#25. Juli bis 4. August 1918:
#Nächtliche Fußmärsche nördlich Cambrai vorbei in den Raum südlich Péronne (25. bis 31. Juli 1918).
#Fußmarsch ans Nordufer der Somme (2. bis 4. August 1918).
#3. bis 28. August 1918:
#Abwehrkämpfe an der Somme:
#Übernahme von Stellungen bei Morlancourt (3. bis 4. August 1918).
#Angriff auf die gegnerischen Stellungen zur Wiedereroberung des der Vorgänger-Division verloren gegangenen Vorfeldes (6. August 1918).
#Abwehr des englischen Großangriffes auf Morlancourt. Das Regiment verliert bei der Einnahme von Morlancourt die Großteile der sechs den Ort verteidigenden Kompagnien und muß vor dem nachfolgenden Tank-Angriff bis an den Westrand des Tailles-Waldes zurückgehen (8. August 1918).
#Das Regiment wird im Pionier-Lager nördlich Bray neu formiert. Die zwei neugebildeten provisorischen Bataillone (Bataillon „Bosch“: 9., 10., 11. und 12./IR 124 mit 2. MG-Kompagnie, Bataillon „Schaidler“: Rest des Regiments zu zwei Kompagnien und 1. MG-Kompagnie) übernehmen eine Zwischenstellung an der Straße Bray – Albert und Bray – Fricourt, Bataillon „Bosch“ später an der Straße Bray – Corbie in vorderster Linie. (10. August 1918).
#Erholung im Biwak in Curlu (16. bis 18. August 1918).
#Besetzung von Stellungen in vorderster Linie an der Straße Méaulte – Etmehem (18. auf 19. August 1918).
#Beim englischen Angriff nach dreitägiger Tromelfeuervorbereitung wird das Bataillon „Schaidler“ durch die gegnerische Feuerwalze abgeschnitten und gerät mit den Überlebenden in Gefangenschaft. Der Rest des Regiments zieht sich auf das Pionier-Lager Curlu zurück (22. und 23. August 1918).
#Biwak im Hammerwald bei Curlu. Das Regiment besteht aus einem Bataillon mit zwei Kompagnien und einer MG-Abteilung (23. bis 25. August 1918).
#Abwehrkämpfe an der Höhe östlich Curlu und der Roten Ferme (25. bis 28. August 1918).
#Loslösung vom Feind und Rückzug in das Waldstück zwischen Liéramont und Nurlu (28. auf 29. August 1918).
#Marsch nach Viesly zwischen Cambrai und Le Cateau nach zweitägiger Rast (31. August bis 1. September 1918).
#Auffüllung der Mannschaftsbestände durch Eingliederung der Reste des II. Bataillons des aufgelösten Württembergischen Reserve-Infanterie-Regiments Nr. 247 (2. September 1918).
#Verlegung nach Muceray bei Nouillon-Pont (4. bis 9. September 1918). Das Regiment wird behelfsmäßig in drei Bataillone zu drei Kompagnien und einer MG-Kompagnie eingeteilt.
#Bezug der neuer Stellungen auf Höhe 307 bei Loison und Stellungskämpfe vor Verdun (11. September bis 28. Oktober 1918).
#Verlegung nach Mouzay an der Maas (südlich Stenay) und Ruhe in Mouzay (28. bis 31. Oktober 1918).
#Bezug neuer Stellungen bei Barricourt und Nouart (1. November 1918).
#Abwehr amerikanischer Angriffe bei Barricourt (1. bis 3. November 1918).
#Rückzug über Ober- und Nieder-Champy (Les Champys) auf Stellungen bei der Maucourt-Ferme (3. November 1918).
#Rückzug auf Stellungen auf den Höhen südlich der Goudrun-Ferme und vor den nachdrängenden Amerikanern bis hinter die Maas bei Pouilly und Autréville (4. November 1918).
Abwehr amerikanische Angriffe auf Autréville (10. auf 11. November 1918).
Click to expand...
Regarding Doug's helmet was brought back from Peronne and my helmet is marked IR124, we can with a high grade of certainty say that our helmets were worn by soldiers of 10th Company of Wurtembergisches Infanterie Regt. 124. For me this is one step closer to solving the mistery :-k , but I really want to know the meaning of that red stripe ](*,) ...

One side note: Did you know Erwin Rommel also served in IR124 \:D/ ?

Adler
 
Yes i know i have Erwin's bayonet :D .

DSC00366_zps1okq49on.jpg
 
My humble addition to this discussion of a very excellent piece, is to point out that prior to the war red maneuver bands were worn on the uberzug of the "enemy" in the Kaiser's practice war games. I have no clue really, just throwing this idea out there. A last comment......its just a thin line, no bigger than the usual black ones separating the camo colours and it is only on the front of the helme. If it were some wound stripe, why would it only be on the front facing the enemy who would have no clue. As if they are going to notice this in the heat of battle?? If it were on the back also, then I could see it as some kind of "follow me" guys sort of thing. Like how the WW 2 US army put its officer stripes on the back side of their helmets facing the friendlies, not the enemy snipers. To my mind, it is on the front because I am in training and my side has the red stripe and yours does not but we are both German. I think, that practicality has to be considered in all of these situations, there has to be a reason....the stripe on the front serves no purpose in battle. IMHO
 
Thank you for your comments gentlemen!

Meanwhile, after some more research...

1) My helmet:

- Model M17
- Maker: ET (Eisenhütenwerke Thale A.G.)
- Size 64
- Camoed twice, top layer in ocre, rust brown and green with narrow black deviding line
- Red horizontal stripe from lug to lug
- Ink stamp on inside of neck guard: AK and 64, which means the helmet has been refurbished.
- Pencil markings: Rogg 10/124: after some research, it appears the name of the wearer of the helmet was Adolf Rogg, born 8/4/1896 in Muthmannshofen, Kempten, Bayern, served in 10th Company of Infanterie Regt 124 Wurttemberg, had minor injuries.

2) Doug's helmet:

- This helmet was brought home by the vet who picked it up in Peronne France on September 1st 1918
- Model M16
- Maker: NJ (Vereinigte Deutsche Nickelwerke, Schwerte i/Westf.)
- Size 62
- Camoed twice, top layer in ocre, rust brown and green with narrow black deviding line
- Red horizontal stripe from lug to lug
- Pencil markings: Peronne France Sept 1 1918 and the soldiers name a few times. Since I can't read this old German style very good, I think the name is something like W. Marquardt... I found the name of this soldier in the same listing as Adolf Rogg... It would be Wilhelm Marquardt, born 15/6/1899 in Legelshurst, Kehl, served in 2nd Company of Infanterie Regt. 124 Wurttemberg, missing in action.



3) Other facts:

- IR124 was stationed in Peronne France from 25 until 31 July and stayed in that area untill end of the war
- Canadian soldiers were in the Peronne area on sept 1st 1918



What can we conclude so far?

- Both soldiers served in IR 124 Wurttemberg, so we can rule out the Austrian theory.
- Looking at the colors of the second layer of camo paint, both helmets having the same narrow black deviding lines, can indicate that both helmets were painted by the same hand.
- the most logical possibility for that red stripe is a distinct marking and not only used in 10th Company of IR124 since the wearer of Doug's helmet has served in 2nd Company. This isn't a real conclusion actually, but for now the only logical one...

The search continues!

Adler
 
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