A Very Strange Chinstrap - Insight Needed

ww1czechlegion

ww1czechlegion

Well-known member
Here's a very strange chinstrap that I am certainly not familiar with ever seeing. It is on a "J. Bambus" manufactured felt ersatz helmet.

I have never seen an enlisted pattern leather chinstrap where the ends of it were cut to fit over the M-91 side posts as this one has been done.

Any thoughts or insight into this one? (I don't own the helmet. I am just curious if this could possibly be legitimate or not).

Thanks,

Alan













 
First 3-photos were from the seller when this helmet had been listed on eBay some time ago. Last 3-photos came from the current owner (which is not me).

Please look at the spike in the first 3-photos, and compare it to the spike in the last 3-photos.

Has the spike been changed/swapped in the last 3-photos compared to the spike that is on the helmet in the first 3-photos? (I personally think it has been changed. Look at the denting near the top of spike in the last 3-photos that isn't there in the first 3-photos, and the profile/curvature of the spike differences between the first 3-photos and the last 3-photos.)

I do know the current owner added 3-brass split brads to the spike base that were missing when the helmet was on eBay (2-were split brad paper fasteners), and the current owner also added a round metal support plate inside the helmet that was also missing when it was sold on eBay. (And of course I realize that 2-national kokardes on this helmet is incorrect :P That's the way it was sold on eBay, and the way the current owner has kept it.)

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or insight.

Best Regards,

Alan
 
Thanks, I appreciate your second set of eyes. I agree, it looks like the buyer swapped out the spike on the helmet for whatever odd reason.

Has anyone else ever seen a chinstrap like this on an enlisted pattern pickelhaube?

Best Regards,

Alan
 
I don't have seen this chinstrap before but my gut feeling is telling me it looks suspicious. This because the way its mounted onto the helmet looks rather fragile to me, being pierced through the M91 side posts. Just my thoughts :D :D

Regards,

Edwin
 
we all know the germans and there fine details on haubes
i do not even think that tis type of chinstrap was even approved by the kriegsministerium on producing sutch hydious(sorry if it souds hard)
chinstrap
it thus not even have reinforcments on the ends like we know them
nah wouldend believe it if this is an original one

jonas
 
To me, this type of strap looks as if it would originate from a visored cap design, but I couldn't find any with the same design. The applied metal buckles are an interesting feature, but I would expect to find them on normal German Mutzes as well.... has anybody been able to find an example of this specific type of strap slide?
I agree, that the Germans would probably have re-enforced the ends and made a neatly punched hole to go over the side posts. Even a soldier doing a field modification could have easily obtained a punch from the harness / quartermaster repair shops to do this right.
Just my humble opinion.

:D Ron
 
hello everybody...here's the solution: http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm68.pl?f=NR_LOT&c=5400&t=temartic_M_GB&db=kat68_m.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Thank you everyone for your thoughts & insight on this strange chinstrap! I think we all agree that this strap was not intended for use on a pickelhaube.

Thank you Zebedeus for the link to the Hermann Historica Auktionhaus sale of the Einheitsfeldmütze M 1917 that shows the same chinstrap in what is the original intended use for the chinstrap, on an Einheitsfeldmütze.


Does anyone else agree with member aicusv & myself that the spike has been swapped out on this filzhaube?

Best Regards,

Alan
 
ww1czechlegion said:
Thank you everyone for your thoughts & insight on this strange chinstrap! I think we all agree that this strap was not intended for use on a pickelhaube.

Thank you Zebedeus for the link to the Hermann Historica Auktionhaus sale of the Einheitsfeldmütze M 1917 that shows the same chinstrap in what is the original intended use for the chinstrap, on an Einheitsfeldmütze.


Does anyone else agree with member aicusv & myself that the spike has been swapped out on this filzhaube?

Best Regards,

Alan
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree about the spike. Not something I would do, but that's just me.

GREAT find on the chinstrap Zebedeus! My thought is that since these helmets weren't combat quality, the chinstrap was probably put on post-war by a private owner. Whatever the case may be, it's an interesting question that will probably never find an answer. (?) Still, the fact that the chinstrap is probably of the same age as the helmet is nice.

:D Ron
 
yes i agree too about the spike was changed.
That chinstrap is original of the period and also very rare! I have no idea why someone put it on the helmet but i dont think for replacing on the field a broken chinstrap...it is so weakly attached, the helmet cant be properly worn with that.
Maybe a collector tried to complete the helmet in a very imaginative way...

Luca
 
To me, the spike looks different, because the new owner has fixed the sunken top problem which was very obvious in the first set of pictures. Thus, it looks different.
 
By member aicusv:
There are marks on the spike that don't appear in the ebay photos.
Click to expand...

Yes, thank you, I agree. It looks like the area 1/2" or so below the tip of the spike has been dented in for much of the circumference of the spike.

The wearer's right side of the helmet photo also show dark patina spots on the flared out section of the spike on the third photo posted, and they are not those patina spots are not on the last photo from the current owner/dealer.

Even though the top of the helmet dent has been pushed out, I believe the profile or shape of the spike is also different in the first set of 3-photos from the eBay seller, when compared to the last 3-photos provided by the current owner (who is actually a dealer and the helmet is for sale on his website). The vent holes for the spike are also in different locations from each other in the two sets of photos of the same helmet.

I'm just trying to get some other opinions to see if this dealer who I thought was reputable and trustworthy has swapped out the spike on this helmet after he got it on eBay, and replaced it with the damaged spike that is currently on the helmet in the last 3-photos I posted.

Best Regards,

Alan
 
It is getting harder and harder to find helmets that have not been "played" with. Last week I went to a local show that had about two dozen helmets for sale. Out of that number I only saw one that appeared to be worth purchasing if it had been priced right.
 
I remember on ebay years ago, somebody was selling a spike that had been filed inside at the tip and a (small calibre) bullet stuck into, or so went the description. It looked identical to this damage or repair... which ever it is.

:D Ron
 
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