Artillery Picklehaube identification

[Shinyblades]

Hi fellow collectors
Although not a helmet collector I recently acquired this helmet along with a ww1 stahlhelm in a trade , the previous owner stated it was a pre ww1 helmet , possibly franco Prussian period .
I will appreciate your comments

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Looks like a nice M1871 Prussian Artillery helmet.

James

 

[Shinyblades]

Thanks James , the helmet has just 1 large cockade with silver inset , the Wappen and cross base are held with looped nuts , would this be officers or other ranks , should I clean it or leave as is .
Thanks again

 

[coert65]

I'd leave it as it is, the looped nuts are correct for this helmet. The stars holding the spike on, as does the perlring and kokarde indicate an officer.
The again I do not know if the crown on the wappen should be pierced, as in later officer helmets.
Its a very nice example!

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Coert nailed it, and the 1 kokarde is correct for early helmet.

James

 

[Shinyblades]

Hi guys thanks for the replies , the wappen crown is unpierced , just dirty .
Gary

 

[2nd.Leibhusar]

The kokarde is for a NCO

 

[Shinyblades]

Thanks leibhusar the kokarde is Large at 60 mm

 

[2nd.Leibhusar]

first type ( same as on the haube) is NCO
second is for an officer

 

[Shinyblades]

Thanks Leibhusar
Great information , are the curved chin scales used on NCO and other ranks

 

[Sandmann]

The helmet is somewhat special. It looks like an M1860 field artillery helmet (definitely a property helmet), the wide and curved chinscales were only worn by mounted units from 1860. The officer's spike and the stars don't really belong to an enlisted man's helmet, but the visor trim clearly shows that it was one. I therefore suspect that the cockade of the non-commissioned officer with portepee is correct and that the spike could have been replaced by a collector.
The helmet eagle is also unusual. The design of the feathers and the fact that there are no material remnants between the wings and legs suggest a helmet eagle from 1887 onwards. However, as it's a property helmet, it could still possibly fit with an M1860, as these had to be purchased privately. It would therefore be interesting to know the height of the eagle (measured with a tape measure following the curvature, in the middle from tail to the crown's top). If it is 11.0 cm to 11.5 cm high, it clearly belongs to an M1887. However, if it measures 12.0 cm to 12.5 cm, it would be correct for an M1860 anyway.

 

[Shinyblades]

Hi sandman
Many thanks for your message , I measured the front plate as you said and it is 11.5 cm , I am not sure what a property helmet means , the mounts appear to have had a gilt finish , I will post a few more photos in daylight
Thanks again
Gary

 

[Sandmann]

You are welcome. Property helmet means that it wasn’t purchased by the army but privately by a soldier. Officers, one-year volunteers and non-commissioned officers had to buy their own stuff, while the stuff of the enlisted men was purchased in large quantities by the army.
Is the eagle attached to the helmet with leather pins or with squared nuts or squared bow nuts? The former eagle would be an enlisted man's helmet eagle M1895, the latter an M1887.
In any case, it's already a good looking helmet and the parts seem to be original, even if some of them don't originally belong to this helmet. It will look good on the shelf as it is, as the fire-gilded parts have a really nice finish
But you could also look for a crossfitting with a ball top for enlisted men (if the ball on the crossfitting can be removed, you could possibly buy one with a removable spike and then replace it). Then you would need 4 threaded pins with a half-round head and a helmet eagle M1860, all with similar fire-gilding finish to the other parts and squared bow nuts. Then your helmet would have the original look for an M1860.

 

[Shinyblades]

Hi sandman , ok so private purchase
All the fittings are held with square nuts with bowed loops . The helmet has that always been as it is look so I think I will leave as is and display . Maybe in the future When I gain more experience I will re appraise it when I put a collection together . Many thanks
Gary ( ps I will post a few photos of the other items i traded for

 

[Bobted]

Great looking helmet I would leave it well alone like you are doing. Rob

 

[b.loree]

Convex (curved) indicates field artillery. Any mounted troops have convex scales. Infantry and foot arty have flat scales. Great NCO helmet BTW, do not make any changes to this piece, it is perfect just as is.

 

[Shinyblades]

Hi b Lorre
Thanks for that , yes I love the helmet just as it is , I don’t mess with my items , I go with my gut on condition , aging , patina , originality and studying an item before I accept buying or trading , trying to find good books at the minute on pickelhaubes , have you any recommendations
Thanks again

 

[b.loree]

Shiny: We have a section on the forum that shows and discusses all of the best references. Scroll down in the main page Pickelhauben section and you will find it. In addition, check out our "New Collector" section for lots of information. Last, the best reference site in English on pickelhauben is, the Kaiser's Bunker operated by one of our most expert members, Tony Schnurr.

 

[Sandmann]

Hi b Lorre
Thanks for that , yes I love the helmet just as it is , I don’t mess with my items , I go with my gut on condition , aging , patina , originality and studying an item before I accept buying or trading , trying to find good books at the minute on pickelhaubes , have you any recommendations
Thanks again

I think here you will find the information you are looking for:

• https://www.pickelhaubes.com/xf/threads/imperial-german-helmet-and-uniform-reference-books.16470/
• https://www.kaisersbunker.com/pe/
• https://historien-kabinett.de/Pickelhaube
• https://pickelhauben.net/articles/

 

[Shinyblades]

The guy I traded with had offered me these helmets , if I was to pick 2 which ones should I go for
Thanks all
Gary