Asian Filz

Hi Robert,

Yes, as you say the colonies in general were an imperial affair rather than individual state affairs. The East Asian Expeditionary Corps is an exception though, at least in its early formation, and of course China wasn't quite a colony.

The green grey felt helmet was introduced at the same time as the imperial regualtions in 1901. Previous state plates and cockades were on standard leather Picklehauben (and shakos), so I guess it would be difficult to prove if one was used in China or "only" by the regular army back in Germany.

Cheers
Chris
 
Robert's picture brought out a lot of questions. This helmet surfaced out of the Trawnik collection-it had originally come out of a very well-respected collection on the West Coast.
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It seems quite possible that this spike and bass were changed sometime after the helmet was originally constructed.
2.jpg


The wappen is attached in a manner similar to George's.
3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg
 
I have been wondering about the two basic types. On the one hand, the felt covered type and on the other hand the type with cloth covering. There are also two types of spike bases. One type has normal brads. It is also more slender while the other has an extra ring and no brads.

Where they both 1900 models for the expedition corps?

asia_08.jpg


asia_09.jpg
 
joerookery said:
//This helmet surfaced out of the Trawnik collection...It seems quite possible that this spike and bass were changed sometime after the helmet was originally constructed.//
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Hi Joe:

I certainly hope it doesn't reside in the Robinson collection now.

I gather the present configuration was intended to represent a Pionier Regiment. Three questions:

1. Silver Reserve cross?

2. Heat discoloration on the Wappen opposite the solder points of the split brads? In my opinion, this implies either an inexpert recent repair or major alteration of the Wappen.

3. M15 officer spike and base on a helmet circa 1900-01?

For what it's worth, :thumbsdown:

Chas.
 
A fourth question occurred to me: leather reinforcement panels beneath the chinscale Rossetten. When was the last time anyone saw that on an officer helmet? To my knowledge, these appear solely on helmets originally equipped with Knopfen 91.

Chas.
 
I certainly hope it doesn't reside in the Robinson collection now.
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No it doesn't but it is the kind of thing that excites me.

1. Silver Reserve cross?
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Not correct, but also not unheard of.



In my opinion, this implies either an inexpert recent repair or major alteration of the Wappen.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I doubt that this wappen has been off recently and I don't know what kind of alteration had to be done to make this a three point connection.

3. M15 officer spike and base on a helmet circa 1900-01?
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This had to be added later. So was this a 1901 helmet that was resurrected and changed for the 1915 application? Is it some sort of Frankenstein helmet? it certainly follows the pattern of some conversions that had the new Spike base and the old rosettes.

A fourth question occurred to me: leather reinforcement panels beneath the chinscale Rossetten. When was the last time anyone saw that on an officer helmet? To my knowledge, these appear solely on helmets originally equipped with Knopfen 91. [/img]
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This one does have M91 posts but is an officers helmet.
rosette.jpg


Thank you for your thoughts on this one -- it certainly is not standard!
 
I must have left my brain on the pillow this morning. :oops: Joe, you're absolutely right about the the reinforcement panels being present on M15 regulation officer helmets.

Based upon what I've seen of Randy's helmet, I would conclude "Frankenhaube." However, a complete takedown would be necessary to prove the point.

What I would specifically look for would be the size and nature of the hole(s) in the helmet shell for the spike base and rosettes. I would also want to see the reverse of the Wappenadler. I would argue the shell was prepped, as was George's helmet, for the colonial eagle, and someone altered the current Prussian eagle to fit those holes/slits.

I regard any original Wappenadler with prongs to represent the lowest quality private purchase option. Furthermore, these are generally very thin stampings that usually appear on Vulkanfiber helmets. Soldered posts or brads of the period should never display burn marks like that.

Rather than speculating, I'm surprised Randy hasn't already disassembled the helmet to satisfy his own curiosity. I certainly would.

Chas.
 
Dear Joe, Chas, et. al.
I asked Joe to post the photos of the Asian Filzhaube conversion to help stimulate the exchange of ideas. This unusual helmet came from the family of a well known and now deceased west coast collector. I had been friends with the gentleman for many years. He obtained the helmet in the 1960's. The helmet is unique. What is it? I don't know. I have removed the spike and there are no extra holes in the body. The chinscales are original but I can see where the legs of the rosette now are, at one time M91 lugs were mounted. As per you query, I have not taken the front plate off the helmet as it is affixed with "splinte". Nothing would be worse that to break these fragile legs just to satisfy my desire to look behind the plate. The officer sweat leather and silk are original. "Frankenhaube"?? Possibly. There is also the possibility that it was converted as an ersatz piece and then worn under a field cover. It has been a great conversation piece among my collector friends. I do have in my collection a M1895/fireman conversion/re-issue in M1915 - Prussian Infantry EM helmet that belonged to one of my family members. I obtained it in 1962 from the son of the guy who wore it. My family member wore it faithfully doing his duty guarding the foreign civilian detainment camp at Ruhleben (near Berlin). Anyone now looking at the helmet would immediately say it is a "frankenhaube" and a fake fireman come spiked helmet. See, we can never be SURE about anything.
Respectfully submitted,
Randy Trawnik
 
Randy-

thanks for the information, I find the helmet very interesting! I also think it is pretty cool and would put it on my shelf for sure.

James
 
Tomorrow I am off to the SOS and the O.A. Pickel is going with me. I don't plan to bring it home. Contact me by email if you are interested. My email is [email protected]. The starting price will be $4000 but my hope is to find a new owner for it while there so if need be the price will fall as the calendar turns. I will hold it for any who respond in the order in which I hear from them.
 
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