Baden Reserve Hauben

[istanbulian]

For some bizarre reason there appears to be a greater proportion of Baden Reserve officers helmets that have been converted from Regular line helmets than (say) Prussia. As a consequence many of the examples I have seen feature both the Bandeau and a Reserve Cross with the state motto , or a Bandeau with the motto but with a plain reserve cross. Rarely have I seen the classic Reserve combination of a cross with the motto and a plain bandeau.

I thought I had at last obtained such an example

...but on close examination the "plain" bandeau has clear evidence of ghosting from a former motto

Now I think we all understand that impecunious officers on moving from the Active List to Reserve would re-cycle their expensive wappen but I would have thought that the time and effort to remove the motto would have made this a more expensive route than straight purchase of a new wappen.

Are there any other theories as to why this wappen is thus ? Is it a reflection of a small state, faulty plates etc etc ? :?

 

[joerookery]

That is a good question. Mine has a motto and a Landwehr cross. Baden does seem to have more conversions than some states from active component one year volunteers to reserve officer. Not only are the crosses applied to active component plates, but they seem to be affixed in three separate positions using various methods. At least the guys from Baden did not have to change the spike base.

While this does not apply to your helmet, there is a fire helmet that uses a Baden Wappen with a completely different motto.

The motto on the cross seems to vary as well as the size of the cross. A Fürst cross is correct. However I have seen several different types. There is an interesting theory by John O'Connor that I think is apocryphal. This thought is that a Baden Wappen and with a Landwehr cross that has a koenig motto; he believes that is applicable to Infantry Regiment 114 -- and the watch company. It is an interesting thought but I don't buy it.

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

That really is a beautiful helmet though. Somewhere around here I have a photo of a Baden officer with a Landwehr cross on the Wappen, and the motto is visible. Perhaps its just us that are so particular? :compress:

 

[Gustaf]

Perhaps its just us that are so particular? :compress:

Tony,
I think you have a very good point here, we need to remember that the time that these were made and used, very few things were mass produced. The reason that we have become so particular is due to the doctored and faked helmets that seem to abound, and we are always looking to put things in defined boxes so we can tell what is real and what is not.
Gus

 

[Kaiser Bill]

To remove the motto after the plate was made would be almost impossible as the plates are not that thick.... you would end up grinding right through the metal. Can you see the ghost image on the reverse of the helmet plate? The gold gilt looks to be untouched which would eliminate any collector tinkering. I would think that this would be from an incomplete job of grinding down the origional dies to remove the motto. So my vote is that it was made that way. Bill

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

Hi Bill,

I had the opportunity to buy an Preußen officer's Wappen, that had clearly been made as a FR cypher on the chest, which was at some point hammered flat, then re-stamped for the FR and then re-guilded. It was very odd, and I am sure original. If the above Baden Wappen had a motto, I suspect it would have been removed the same way; by first hammering it flat, as grinding would make the spots were the letters were too thin.

 

[joerookery]

I thought I would look up the Wappen with the different motto.

This picture is from the 1932 Junkers catalog -- I have seen a helmet like this that was advertised and sold as a Freikorps helmet. It is in fact from a fire department.

 

[JR92]

Hello,

Like this one...

Regards