Bavarian General Adjutant

[Kaisersammler]

Check out this auction.

 

[Kaisersammler]

Have a look at this auction by Hermann historic

 

[ccj]

Would be nice to see a Generaladjutant field gray uniform in color.

Leonrod was, I think, a flugeladjutant with an honorary rank of Oberst. I think a Generaladjutant uniform would be identical except litzen would be gold and shoulder boards would be for generals rank. Does anyone know how many Bavarian Generaladjutant there were during period 1910-1918.

 

[Glennj]

Charles,

as listed in the Bavarian Militär-Handbuch between 1911 and 1914 and the Rangliste of 1918.

1911: General der Artillerie Peter Frhr. von Wiedenmann
1911: General der Kavallerie Albert Frhr. von Könitz
1911: General der Infanterie Hermann Ritter von Haag
1911: General der Infanterie Karl Frhr. von Horn
1911: General der Kavallerie Maximilian Frhr. von Sazenhofen

1913: Generalleutnant Wilhelm Walther von Walderstötten

Just the six.

The plate shows the 1915 model uniforms.

Regards
Glenn

 

[ccj]

Thanks Glenn, always impressed with your knowledge and resources

Thank you

 

[b.loree]

The specific nuances of these uniforms is mind boggling and way beyond my comprehension. However, they do look very very nice!

 

[ccj]

That’s funny because I feel that way about Spiked Helmets.
Thank goodness there are experts out there…

 

[b.loree]

Touché

 

[ccj]

Not adjutant but generals none the less. 2 Bavarian Tunics, one a 1910 and one a gray litewka. Would love to find a nice Bavarian Generals Pickelhaube. I missed out on nice ones I couldn’t afford.

Traded/sold a good deal of stuff to get these.

 

[KAGGR#1]

Not adjutant but generals none the less. 2 Bavarian Tunics, one a 1910 and one a gray litewka. Would love to find a nice Bavarian Generals Pickelhaube. I missed out on nice ones I couldn’t afford.

Traded/sold a good deal of stuff to get these.

View attachment 25122

Very nice display
Thanks for the post and photo
Steve

 

[Kaisersammler]

This is going to be difficult. There aren't as many general's helmets as are sought here.

 

[Sandmann]

This is going to be difficult. There aren't as many general's helmets as are sought here.

A good point. Just a few background informations:

• Before August 9, 1902 the Bavarian Generals wore no helmet but a hat with feathers
• „General-Adjutant‘s“ and „General‘s à la suite“ even wore the hat until January 4, 1913.
• The colorful enameled General helmet plates were introduced on April 17, 1913.

 

[ccj]

So, if you’re displaying a blue dress uniform with a helmet it should be the generals pattern without the enameled emblem?

I may not get a generals helmet and that’s fine. I have a nice Bavarian schirmmutze for display.

I’ll bet it’ll be near impossible to ever find a general adjutant tunic to display with a helmet than for me to find a standard Bavavarian generals Pickelhaub

 

[Glennj]

I’ll bet it’ll be near impossible ti ever find a general adjutant tunic to display

Charles,

it will be even harder to find a General à la suite! Although the officers' dress regulations certainly described the uniform, it would seem that the practice of appointing such officers never took hold in the Kingdom of Bavaria. I have checked every edition of the Bavarian Militär-Handbuch from 1871 through 1916 and not a single officer is listed as holding this appointment.

Regards
Glenn

 

[ccj]

I’ve been searching for information on Bavarian General à la suite and there’s a dearth of information. I thought von Bothmer wore uniform à la suite but turns out it’s probably the uniform of the Generalkapitän Leibgarde der Hartschiere.
I may be wrong but that the explanation I deduced from research.

 

[Kaisersammler]

Take a look at the new Herrmann Historica catalogue. And your wishes will come true. If the money is right.

 

[Glennj]

I thought von Bothmer wore uniform à la suite but turns out it’s probably the uniform of the Generalkapitän Leibgarde der Hartschiere.

Charles,

he wears the uniform of the Infanterie-Leib-Regiment. He was granted the honour of being placed à la suite to the regiment on 28 November 1912.

In this type of instance the usage of à la suite status is similar to granting an honorary colonelcy to a particular unit and with it the right to wear that regiment's uniform.

Regards
Glenn

 

[Sandmann]

Charles,

it will be even harder to find a General à la suite! Although the officers' dress regulations certainly described the uniform, it would seem that the practice of appointing such officers never took hold in the Kingdom of Bavaria. I have checked every edition of the Bavarian Militär-Handbuch from 1871 through 1916 and not a single officer is listed as holding this appointment.

Regards
Glenn

Glenn, Bavarian - à la suite - existed in the 19th century, you can find - à la suite officer‘s - in the Bavarian regulation sheets (see attached example of the regulation sheet from 1884) or rank lists which existed for each regiment (Stammrollen?).
I have found some „à la suite“ in the „Militär-Wochenblatt“ and „Löbell‘s Jahresbericht: For example Generalmajor „Ritter“ Hermann von Haag and Generalmajor Schumacher, both „à la suite der Armee“ in 1895. Another one was Adolf von Heinleth, „Königlich Bayerischer General der Infanterie“, who he became à la suite of the „Infanterie-Leib-Regiment“ on August 17, 1890.
I think to find Bavarian - à la suite“ officers the rank list is not the best source. This is also supported by the following regulation according the officers „à la suite“, which I found in the royal Bavarian regulation sheet of 1889, page 193:

Officers "à la suite" of units shall always be ranked only where they are "à la suite" without regard to their possible use elsewhere. The royal general and wing adjutants, the court cavaliers, then the officers in use in other Most High direct service, as well as the officers "à la suite" of the army are not listed in a special ranking list; they shall send to the War Department, by May 15 of each year only, their personnel notes relating to the keeping of books and lists, indicating their domicile.​

Generals and colonels who are holders of regiments without simultaneously holding another military function are listed only in the rank lists of their regiments, but in these lists with full entry of the relevant personnel notes.​

(source: Verordnungsblatt des Königlich Bayerischen Kriegsministeriums 1884)

 

[Glennj]

Hi Sandy,

understood. I am referring to the appointments of General à la suite to the King of Bavaria (i.e. his personal staff or “Gefolge“).
and not to officers placed à la suite to a specific regiment. In the entourage of the King of Prussia, you will find numerous Generale à la suite listed in his “Gefolge“. These were normally former Flügeladjutanten who on promotion to Generalmajor had been appointed General à la suite and wore a similar uniform to the Generaladjutant but with silver as opposed to golden insignia. As I noted in my earlier post, uniform regulations existed for such an appointment in the Royal Bavarian army but no officer appears to have been so appointed to the entourage of the Bavarian king.

Incidentally, the term à la suite was also used prior to 1901 for those regimental officers serving in appointments away from their parent regiment.

Regards
Glenn

 

[ccj]

All confusing but I’m glad Glenn clarified Bothmer’s uniform as it very much looks like insignia for the Leib Regt. The crown on the boards also appears to be the same, strong chance I’m wrong, as the Flugeladjutant or Generaladjutant crown.
The topic of adjutants, à la suites, flugeladjutant, etc are always both informative and confusing to me.