Bavarian Infantry M1910 Feldmütze

RON

RON

Well-known member
Gents, this one just came in.

Although a classic Feldmütze, I need to double-check a few things:

From what I've read on Kaiser's Bunker:
'B.A. I': I Armee-Korps (Köenigsberg) depot
'3. J.R.'= 3rd Infantry Regiment

As Köenigsberg was part of Eastern Prussia, does this mean this depot supplied Bavaria as well or that this originally started as a Prussian Feldmütze?

Also, do these cockades look OK to you? Isn't the blue a little too flashy?
BavarianInfantryEMFeldmtzeM1910a-1.jpg

BavarianInfantryEMFeldmtzeM1910b-1.jpg

BavarianInfantryEMFeldmtzeM1910bb.jpg

BavarianInfantryEMFeldmtzeM1910d.jpg

BavarianInfantryEMFeldmtzeM1910c-1.jpg

BavarianInfantryEMFeldmtzeM1910e-1.jpg

BavarianInfantryEMFeldmtzeM1910f.jpg
 
Unfortunately, the stamps are fake. The cockades look suspect too. I think the cap may be a re-enactor's special. It takes a while to learn these things, so please get help here before diving in. I hate to curb your obvious enthusiasm, but take an old collector's advice, learn first, buy second.

Best regards,
Chip
 
I knew something seemed wrong with those cockades the minute I saw the closeups #-o .
I should've consulted you 'old' collectors (to use Chip's words) indeed but I thought I was getting a good deal and had enough experience already after almost 1 year of intensive Pickelhaubes.com learning to risk the dive :oops:

Anyway, I would've never suspected the liner stamps would be fake too because I thought they made sense... :( By all means please share with me your secret there!
And why would anyone go through all this trouble for re-enactment caps? You don't get to see the stamps when the cap is worn anyway... Besides, the cap itself does look authentic, doesn't it?
 
Hey Matt, it's a good thing the seller does accept returns.
Will have it shipped back the soonest.
 
RON said:
// Besides, the cap itself does look authentic, doesn't it? //
Click to expand...

I admit I did not even look at it, just re-directed you to the Bavarian Armee-Korps. looking at the cap, no. It does not look original at all. Compare your photo (top) to an original (below). Look at the wool composition, especially the piping, and the way the band is sewn on, and of course the Kokarden.

BavarianInfantryEMFeldmtzeM1910b-1.jpg


fgch01b.jpg
 
Hey Ron,
Re-enator gear has been made with real looking stamps from the beginning. The idea being that you could sell you re enacting kit after you had used it for a while as the real item. Most re-enactors will deny that this is the reason that all their reproductions have "real" markings, and for most this may be true. But there can only be one reason for the markings, and that is to deceive. The demand for the "real" markings have made nearly all reproducers add them, but the respectable reproducers also add a makers mark, Schipper Fabrik for example, so it is good to be familiar with the reproduction that are out there.
Chip is uncanny in the way he can look at fabric and tell if it is correct, even in photos. One of the things that stands out to me is that the wool seen in the close up of the Kockarden seems too fuzzy, and too bright.
Maybe we need to start a sticky on known fake markings.
Best
Gus
 
Hey Gus!
Listing the known fake markings here is a great idea and maybe we should start with mine? (lucky me! :-({|= )
I'm now going to look for my previous (Prussian) Feldmütze thread to see if that one at least was cleared by Chip? [-o<
Here it is: http://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5650" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (luckily that one had no markings!)
 
Ron,

I'm not the last word on anything, but I have seen a lot of stuff over the years. You kinda get a feel for it.

Regarding markings, I would say that there are fonts that you look for. Then, it is a combination of things, the size of the stamps, multiple stamps that are very similar (like on this cap), clarity of the stampings, positioning of the stamps, etc. It all comes together to make sense. Look at these stamps more closely and I think you will realize that there are things that they are telling you.

And by the way......your other cap is A-OK. :wink:

Chip
 
Now that's a relief (as otherwise it would've been too late to send it back)! :cool:
Nevertheless, and now that we're discussing my Prussian Feldmütze again, I still wonder why:
1/ The Cockades are sized differently (Reichs is larger)?
2/ The Reichs cockade is the type that is sown while the Prussian looks like it's the one with split brads/prongs
3/ Both turn out to be sown when looking at the inside
 
Ron,

Normally, the so-called NCO cockades are smaller than the sew-on type. I don't think the bottom (Prussian) one is sewn on. I may be wrong, but that black thread is probably a remnant left from the original sew-on enlisted cockade. You can feel the lining to see if the brads are still inside.

Chip
 
Hey Chip,
The problem with this Cap and most of my recent acquisitions is that I can only rely on pictures right now as I'm all the way in Lebanon and can only visit Montreal on holidays when I get time off from work.

If we assume the bottom cockade is like you say--an NCO type replacement with split brads--wouldn't this mean one of 2 things: (1) Either the replacement was made when the soldier was promoted to NCO or (2) post-war by some collector wanting to replace (or upgrade) a damaged OR cockade?

One thing that intrigues me though: When you insert a cockade with prongs that are relatively long, how do you avoid the latter not protruding to the liner's outer layer?
 
Ron,

I guess my answer to your being overseas is to ask to see things here before you make your decisions.

Your assumptions as to how the NCO type cockade got on the cap make sense.

It is possible to get the prongs in between the outer gray wool and the cotton lining. Occasionally, you see a cap where the prong backed cockade was put on before the lining was sewn in. I have a near mint Hessian like that. The state cockades prongs do not come through the lining and there was never a sewn-on cockade there.

Chip
 
My exact same 'infamous' fake Bavarian Infantry M1910 Feldmütze discussed further up here has surfaced again on eBay... I remember the guy who first sold it to me did sell it back after I returned it to him but did hint that it could be a replica and it went down for somewhere around $100 I think.

Someone else is now trying to lure in buyers with quite some nice grouping shots and by pretending the filed cap came "part of the lot of WW1 items [he] purchased in the UK from the Estate of an elderly gentleman in the late 1980s, along with the previously sold helmets, tunic and other German Imperial army items" !!! :x :-x :twisted:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW1-GERMAN-IMPERIAL-ARMY-OTHER-RANKS-KRATCHEN-FIELD-CAP-ENLISTED-MUTZE-HAT-/110959603490" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
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