Bavarian Officer's helmet

chinstrap

chinstrap

Active member
Hi

I'd welcome any views on this helmet. I don't have much experience of pickelhaubes but I did some research before I bought it. It seems to me to have all the characteristics of a Bavarian Officer's helmet, except that there is no gilt on the plate and fittings, such as I've seen in photos.Was gilt the norm, or did they stop using it as an economy measure? Could it have worn off? Also, how can you tell if the rounded chin scales denote a mounted officer, or a post 1914 infantry offficer?

Thanks

Patrick

P1000678.jpg


[/img]
P1000680.jpg


P1000682.jpg


[/img]
P1000685.jpg



[/img]
P1000687.jpg


P1000690.jpg
[/img]
 
Patrick,

Seems like a fine helmet! =D> This has entered you into a world of experimentation and research! :glasses1: :glasses1:

The key difference is not in the branch the difference is in mounted troops and foot troops. Mounted troops had bigger Wappen. In order to provide unity for the manufacture of helmets after 1914 all Bavarian officers carried rounded chin scales. Prior to that time infantry and foot artillery units carried flat chin scales. "The Kriegsministerium-Verordnungsblatt Nr. 17 of the 20th of February 1914 introduced convex scales for officers of foot troops. The flat scales were permitted to be worn until the 1st of January 1916."
Click to expand...

Was gilt the norm, or did they stop using it as an economy measure? Could it have worn off?
Click to expand...
Yes gilt was the norm. As this does not appear to have any now we start to figure out why. first of all, I would like to see the back of the plate. There is a possibility that this was an enlisted plate that never had any gilt. How is the wappen attached to the helmet? If it is split brads I would not touch them.

There is also the possibility of over cleaning or improper cleaning. It does not take much in the way of a detergent to remove the gilt. :dontknow:
 
Joe

Thanks very much for the quick reply . I have photographed the back of the plate as best I can. It's a yellow-gold colour -probably brass I would say, but I'm not really sure what the gilt loked like. The plate has screw posts held by washers and nuts ,and has left very obvious impressions in the leather, so it looks like it's been on a long time. The front of the plate seems to have very good definition, but I don't know what the detail on an EM plate would look like.

Would the other metal fittings on an officer's helmet usually be in gilt, or just the plate?

I've no point of comparison on size . It's 4.5" from the bottom of the wreath to the top of the crown and 5.75 " between the outside of each lion's heel, which seems the widest part. Is that the only distinguishing feature between cavalry and infantry once rounded chinscales were adopted for all?

If it is an EM plate on an officer's helmet,is this something which is known to have happend, and if so, why, or has somebody at some point substituted it? Certainly all the fittings look very consistent in colour and patina.

Sorry about all the questions but this seems the best place to come to get the answers!

Regards

Patrick


P1000693.jpg


[/img]
P1000695.jpg
 
but I'm not really sure what the gilt loked like.
Click to expand...
Amen brother! :flower: :flower: I don't know how many times I said that. Now that I have been collecting for a while I know exactly what to look for. But that was not always the case. One of the great advantages of going to the shows and hanging out with the guys is that you get to see a lot of helmets and go over exactly these kinds of questions--- I know it helps me.

My photography is really crummy, but Tony has some excellent pictures, and there is a particular helmet he posted on this forum that I think you can see the difference in quickly.
http://pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4230
A really good gilt like this is quite flat or matt and very yellowish. When it was prepared the high points were shined and the low points provided a really good contrast. There is a large picture of the wappen that Tony links to his website that is really good. The high points really shine and will often catch a reflection. The concept was zero maintenance. Over time cleaning, and especially with abrasive cleansers can lead to a more dull appearance.

This was not a special metal, but rather he used a process called mercury fire gilding. During the process, the mercury was vaporized and often inhaled by the artisan. This was particularly unhealthy and led to the process of being banned for safety reasons along with the phrase "mad as a hatter". :occasion7:

Often times when you look at the back of a wappen it will shine brightly as only the front got cleaned and the back retained the gilding. I just don't see a lot on yours if any. However, yours do have the correct nuts and bolts for aprivate purchase helmet.

There is a Bavarian book that for some oversight seems to not be on my list, that shows as wappen in some detail. However, it does not detail the size. We have discussed this before, and Bavarian wappen seemed to come in several sizes from 110 m wide, to 145 mm wide. There are also differences in the 1914 wappen about how far away the Lions bodies are. Welcome to even more study! :idea1: :idea1:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top