Bayern Artillerie Offizier mit Paradebusch

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vonkluck14

Member
Hi guys,

I received my latest find today, and wanted to share it with you at once, it hasn't been cleaned at all!

It's an officer's helmet with an absolutely lovely helmet plate with the laurel wreath. As the parade spike is red, I assume it can only be an artillery officer (am I correct in this?). The kokades are original, only mounted on the wrong sides, but that can be easily adjusted. The leather is in fine condition, as is the shape of the Haube. The silk cloth has an unusual bordeaux red color, but appears to belong to this helmet.. Sofar I haven't discovered any stamps or marks of the maker of owner.

I've bought it from the same guy that sold me the Sachsen Helmet (see other thread, it's nice to see that the discussion on the serrated kokades continues..), and it came with some spare parts, amongst which a fluted spike I have been searching for the Chevauleger Helmet!

I look forward to your professional comments!

Regards

Marcel
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Nice find, this one has been on my hit list with a plume, have one without.

I have seen several helmets with this reddish liner I have no problems with it.

Congrats!

James
 
Marcel,

I have a similar helmet that I do not think is quite right. I will share what I think is wrong with mine and you can compare with yours. First of all I got this for so cheap that I really cannot complain about anything. However, I got the trichter and hair separately from a source that I thought was good and he swore that the hair was old.
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You can see the color difference between the top and bottom of the spike base. You can also see that the chinstrap seems to be too long. The helmet is original, I think the chin strap is but not of this helmet -- but everything above -- trichter and hair I am pretty sure it's fake.The only reason I have not formally declared the hair as fake is due to the source.

George Anderson got a completely original and wonderful one of these at SOS several years ago. His officer hair was clearly kinky like a buffalo . There was no mistaking it. It was like every other officer. So then I have mine. A fluted trichter that is obviously new and has a new style machined screw that clearly does not match the threads of the base. My hair is straight like an enlisted plume and when I burn a portion it has all the attributes of being plastic. So realistically wrong very bright hair/ on a reproduction trichter.

What do I do with this? Good question. One more thing that is of interest is that this helmet has one of those crosses that is slanted the wrong way. I guess what I should do is look for a proper spike. However I really have a hard time moving along something that is not correct.
 
vonkluck14 said:
As the parade spike is red, I assume it can only be an artillery officer (am I correct in this?).
Click to expand...

Actually Marcel, no. That is not an officer's Pickelhaube. That is a standard Foot artillery Eigetumsstück (privately purchased) Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube for men with the post- 1914 Wappen. Unfortunately, they did not wear a parade plume. Period. So you have to decide if this is a Foot artillery with an incorrect red plume, or a Field Artillery with replaced flat chinscales and Kokarden. The Kokarden are officer pattern and incorrectly mounted on top of the chinscales, so that could be a clue.
 
Phoee Tony, I really thought this one was 100% o.k...
Could you be more specific in your comment? What makes the difference between this one and an officer's helmet then? I thought that the plates with the laurel wreath only were on pre-war helmets? And what kokades are right for this one then, and what chinstrap?

Marcel
 
Something that has not as yet been mentioned here...red hair trichter signifies that the owner was a musician. Joe the hair on your trichter is also too long. It should not hang down below the rim of the helmet as it does. Just another confirmation of what you already suspect regarding this helme.
 
I think there are many problems.
red hair trichter signifies that the owner was a musician.
Click to expand...

Could also be Bavarian artillery.

Another part of the regulation was that the plume itself would be trimmed with a pair of scissors. For troops on foot, the intent was to cut it to the top edge of the front visor. Mounted troops were supposed to have the plume cut to the bottom edge of the front visor. Photographic evidence shows that sometimes it is not easy to determine if length was applied properly.
Click to expand...

http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Parade%20Plumes.htm
 
To clear up some possible confusion, a red bush signifies a musician in those Prussian units authorized a parade bush. In the Bavarian army a red bush was worn by field artillery regiments.

Reservist1
 
vonkluck14 said:
Phoee Tony, I really thought this one was 100% o.k...
Could you be more specific in your comment? What makes the difference between this one and an officer's helmet then? I thought that the plates with the laurel wreath only were on pre-war helmets? And what kokades are right for this one then, and what chinstrap?

Marcel
Click to expand...

It's the perlring, the plain non-ridged spike-base, stud's in place of stars securing the cross-base etc.

Compare it to Joe's example above.
 
On search in my (new) JC Lacarde books regarding references to this helmet, he mentions that the regimental "Musik Meister" wore a helmet like this, that is: Unteroffiziershelmet with the flat metal chinstraps and these kokades.

This would match the remark that it could be a helmet of a musician??


Marcel
 
What page Marcel? As a general rule as mentioned, a red bush signifies a musician in Prussian units authorized a parade bush. In the Bavarian army a red bush was worn by everyone in the Feldartillerie.
 
It's mentioned on page 34 of Volume I Tony.

I thought it was a general remark, but now i've read it a second time I suppose it only applies to prussian regiments?

Marcel
 
vonkluck14 said:
It's mentioned on page 34 of Volume I Tony.
I thought it was a general remark, but now i've read it a second time I suppose it only applies to prussian regiments?
Marcel
Click to expand...

That would be correct. So that takes you back to my suggestion of Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:44 pm that this is either a:

1. Bayern Feldartillerie (Field Artillery) Eigetumsstück (privately purchased) Pickelhaube for men with replaced flat chinscales; or

2. Bayern Fußartillerie (Foot Artillery) with an incorrect red plume.

And finally are the chinscales original to the helmet which would make him a Fähnrich (Officer-Candidate NCO). Regardless, they are incorrectly mounted on top of the chinscales.
 
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