Berndorfer Helmet - Austrian WWI

Zorndorf

Zorndorf

New member
Gentlemen:
On ebay a Berndorfer helmet is being offered for sale by an Italian gentleman at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/AUSTRIAN-GERMAN-WW1-OR-WW2-HELMET_W0QQitemZ6620875947QQcategoryZ13965QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

As these helmets are both rare and prized they tend when offered to go into the hundreds of dollars, if not a thousand or more.

Does anyone here in our forum have any experience with this type of WWI "steel pot"? My collecting has been strictly limited to the more conventional German and Austrian "coal scuttle" variety.

Your usual candid analysis would be appreciated.

Sincerely,

Bill - Zorndorf
 
Hi Bill,
This looks like a nice helmet to me, Like you I have not handled one of these as they are out of my price range, but I have looked at a lot of Berdorfers being advertized. I have seen this seller many times, and I have not seen anything that was out of line. I suspect that the chin strap is a replacement, but the liner looks right.
Gus
 
Bill,

I would be very suspect about this helmet. First, I think I know of this seller too. I believe he is a serious collector of WWI Austrian and Italian items. Notice how he is talking like he is not sure what this helmet is? He knows better. Secondly, these helmets are supposed to be the same color as other Austrian helmets, not this German green color. He says it's the original paint finish.

How come he says this could be WWI or WWII? Somethings rotten in Denmark in my suspicious mind. If I owned a real Berndorfer and was going to sell it on ebay, I think I would put a reserve price in. If it is real and it sold for $300, wouldn't he be upset? Just a few things to think about.

Chip
 
Good catch Chip,
Yes I would catagorize this seller as an advanced collector, and he should know what this is, as far as colour goes, I think it has beed well established that I can not tell blue from green.
Gus
 
Chip Minx said:
Bill,

I would be very suspect about this helmet. First, I think I know of this seller too. I believe he is a serious collector of WWI Austrian and Italian items. Notice how he is talking like he is not sure what this helmet is? He knows better. Secondly, these helmets are supposed to be the same color as other Austrian helmets, not this German green color. He says it's the original paint finish.

How come he says this could be WWI or WWII? Somethings rotten in Denmark in my suspicious mind. If I owned a real Berndorfer and was going to sell it on ebay, I think I would put a reserve price in. If it is real and it sold for $300, wouldn't he be upset? Just a few things to think about.

Chip
Click to expand...

I'm with you, Chip.
Otto
 
Gentlemen - Gustaf, Chip & Otto

As always your observations are as welcome as they are informative. I do appreciate your collectively having taken the time to look at the offering.

As for myself, I suspect that it will be a "pricey" item and with no PayPal option your recourse to the seller is questionable. My inquiry was, in consequnce of the restricted payment options, more on behalf of a friend who has sought one more as a curiosity than as a collectible. He is not an avid "haube" collector as we all seem to be. Nevertheless, given the prices on ebay nowadays it is essential to be careful. Vielen Dank mein Herren und Viel Gluck!
Bill - Zorndorf
 
I've been looking for a Berndorfer for a while. There was one at SOS that had a "Czech" liner. Whether that liner was from 1919 or 1999 is the big question.

As already mentioned the eBay helmet certainly has the wrong paint and the wrong chinstrap. My two cents from looking at the liner is that it is bad. It almost looks like it could have been taken from a Swedish or Swiss helmet. The square stitching in the liner is all wrong in my opinion.

Here is an example owned by a friend:
http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/Gallery%20M16%20Berndorf0005.jpg

And the liner and chinstrap:
http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/Gallery%20M16%20Berndorf0003.jpg
 
Hey Peter,
This is why it is so great for every one to look at an item, After your comment about the liner, I dug out my Swede helmet, and the liner is as close to the Swede liner as it can be. I think the shell is good though.
Gus
 
I don't believe the shells are being faked... yet. The paint is wrong in my opinion.

A friend recently bought a Berndorfer and it has glossy black paint. Likely it was used by the firemen or something in Prague post-WWII. I told him to strip it and repaint it the proper color for display purposes. The paint might be "Czech" but it isn't military and the helmet lost all character with this stupid black paint.

My two cents: I'd rather not own a piece like this with bad paint. I think it is better to have an original helmet, even if it is much more expenisve.

There were some 750,000 of these helmets made. I don't know where they all went!
 
Here is another Berndorfer from Italy, being discussed on the Wehrmacht Awards Forum. The liner looks better but it has a similar paint.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156229

Any thoughts? There is still something I don't like. Very worn paint, yet the liner looks good. I have an American experimental helmet with paint that looks as worn and the liner shows it too.

I suspect someone is refurbing Berndorfer helmets. :twisted:
 
Hi guys, I have a real berndorfer and by examining that one from the pic, I would say that the shell has been cleaned too far back and lost all its dark brown paint and the liner was put in much earlier (incorrect liner too). Observe the different color tone between the visor and the inner crown of the helmet. Chinstrap is certainly incorrect. Wonder if I know how to figure out to post pics here though. Can anyone teach me how to load the pics then :)
 
Hi Joe, nice to see you again. Tried the link and hopefully it works. Sorry for the small images though.

http://img450.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bernie029pl.jpg

http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bernie014yv.jpg

http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bernie048jx.jpg
 
Amy said:
Hi guys, I have a real berndorfer and by examining that one from the pic, I would say that the shell has been cleaned too far back and lost all its dark brown paint and the liner was put in much earlier (incorrect liner too). Observe the different color tone between the visor and the inner crown of the helmet. Chinstrap is certainly incorrect. Wonder if I know how to figure out to post pics here though. Can anyone teach me how to load the pics then :)
Click to expand...

That's a nice Berndorfer you have. I wish I could find a real one! The only ones at SOS had problems! :x
 
I wish I could show close up shots but the helmet is in my australia bunker at the moment while I am in Singapore. Yes that is a nice Berndofer which I got it by luck :) I still perfer all my german spikes and steel helmets.
 
It is in the bunker, Huh? Looks like it is in Rod's collection now. Seems to me you slipped a few helmets from his collection for yours. Sounds like things are evening out.

Gus
 
Hey Gus, it is my collection :o . Rod's bunker has many headgears and I owe about 20% there. Hmm, Rod must be talking that I am trying to take helmets off him but that is the way to show how much he loves me. Whenever he gives me a helmet(must be nice helmet), I will then love him more so in order to win my total love, he just couldn't stop giving his helmets to me. How could I possibly turn his love down right? :-P
 
Hi Amy,
Rod (like me) is a lucky man to have such a good love. Maggie (my love) has a motto, she tells me "what is yours is mine, and what is mine is mine" so she owns it all.
Best wishes
Gus
 
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