Bruno's rare Hessian

[Rendsburg]

Hi Guys,
Posting for Bruno (always a pleasure my friend):

Since some of you do not dislike Hessian helmets I thought I should share this not too common one with you. Note that markings from both the active (JR117) and reserve (LJR118) are present as they should be…

(click to enlarge)

 

[Rendsburg]

#2

 

[Rendsburg]

#3

 

[dave mosher]

Interesting marking on the back visor. I'm confused though. Why wouldn't the back visor be marked to Nr. 117 to match the plate?

Dave

 

[Rendsburg]

Hi Dave,
That back visor is marked 117, see the little mark on the left of the back visor.
Otto

 

[b.loree]

Arggghhhh!! I am liking this hat very much. Never seen a real live JR 117/118 reservist helme before. Verrrrry nice!! Dave....get your glasses checked Dude! (BIG HUG) Brian

 

[dave mosher]

Must....(gasp)...have...(groan)...eyes checked. Must...(wheeze)...have...(sigh)...eyes..checked...

Brian:

It was a very cool thing to meet you in person last week.

Otto:

It was nice meeting you (kinda) last week; although you didn't talk a lot....

Regards

Dave

 

[Rendsburg]

Thanks Dave,
My pleasure.
Otto

 

[Liongules]

Otto,

That new avatar of yours is really, really scary! Something looks familiar about it, but I just can't seem to place it!

 

[911car]

Simply because all the Hessian reserve infantry belonged to Reserve and Landwehr regiments 116 and 118 (in other words there was no RJR or LJR117, for exemple). Therefore it is normal for a helmet that was first affected to any active Hessian regiment and was then reaffected to Reserve or Landwehr to be marked either 116 or 118.
Bruno

 

[joerookery]

LJR 118 was formed 17/2/1915.

I thought that prior to that XVIII Corps units fed into Landwehr battalions. So lets say this hemet went to LJR 118 in 2/1915 they took an active 117 plate with a Landwehr Cross! Very very possible but also not expected. Lacarde on pg 78 volume 1 talks about this with his usual lack of references.

Can you or other French natural speakers please help translate the caption on page 79 lower left where he talks about 116 and 115. That might explain my odd picture.

 

[911car]

OK Joe I will look at Larcade's book tonight and let you know. Regarding the plate I am not really surprised. It seems that this happened often. I have a reserve Oldenburg infantry helmet which is marked RJR73, which is correct as this regiment included all Oldenburg reservists. The front plate is still the one from Oldenburg though...

 

[911car]

I meant, of course, RJR74, and not 73, for the reserve of OJR91... Sorry for the mistake.
Here you go, Joe (Larcade vol.1, p79):
“Under its camo cloth, an e.m. helmet from Hessian Landwehr regiment 116. The “L” in italic characters is non-regulatory since it normally should be a classic straight L. This Hessian regiment was created as three battalions at the beginning of August 1914 and was constituted of Landwehr soldiers from infantry regiments # 115 and 116. Soldiers from the 1st battalion wore the JR115 uniform with the 116 number embroidered on shoulder straps. This regiment first belonged to the Landwehr 49th brigade, then, from February 1914 (1915 ?..), to the 9th Landwehr division”.
Larcade also mentions p.78 that JR115 reserve officers enrolled in RJR 116 or 118 wore the reserve cross on their helmets just below the Ludwig order star, which confirms that they were still wearing the typical JR115 helmet and plate.
Bruno

 

[joerookery]

Bruno thanks so much! The date thing rally threw me and my French is poor to begin with.

Larcade also mentions p.78 that JR115 reserve officers enrolled in RJR 116 or 118 wore the reserve cross on their helmets just below the Ludwig order star, which confirms that they were still wearing the typical JR115 helmet and plate.

This is entirely the way I understood it. But issued helmets.....

Lacarde frustrates me a lot. He makes these unit affiliation claims with no references. I'm sure he knew but I cannot figure out how. Then he makes lttle mistakes like the 9th Landwehr which was formed in January 1915.

For Oldendburg he claims 1/RJR74, II&III/RJR79 and III/LIR77. How does he get that? Does that mean anything about issued landwehr cross helmets? There is a "lack" of these helmets in the first place so how can one determine rarity? Helmets like yours Bruno are seldom encountered. Why?

Now back to the picture. Where did Lacarde get this data?

Soldiers from the 1st battalion wore the JR115 uniform with the 116 number embroidered on shoulder straps.

It fits this nicely I think but why? Where did he get that?

There are no landwehr crosses in this photo--why?

Clearly I am too pendantic.

 

[911car]

Joe I always found information in Larcade's books to be reliable. His references are listed at the end. Of course there are a few mistakes; often just typos (like maybe 1915 above). My OJR91/RJR74 helmet comes from the attic of a family in central France, and was brought back from the war by a member of this family. No faking can be suspected there. Yet, there is no reserve cross on the plate, but the helmet came with its original Uberzug which is front-marked R74... Maybe sometimes just the camo cloth was marked to the reserve, and no reserve cross was affixed on the plate...

 

[joerookery]

Maybe sometimes just the camo cloth was marked to the reserve, and no reserve cross was affixed on the plate...

Bruno I think this was the case almost all the time. Crosses on OR helmets are far less common than they should be. Not all the covers were marked correctly, uniformily or with any logic.

I have absolutely no question about the originality of your helmets. I do have questions about where Lacarde got his data. I want badly to recreate it but cannot. I think I have or have seen) all of the references in Lacarde's bibliography except the Zeitschrift. He frustrates me. I'm sure he is right but how can you tell?

 

[911car]

And unfortunately it is too late to ask him.
Nice picture. This ersatz battalion (E) marking is seldom seen.

 

[joerookery]

Bruno let me beat this dead horse a bit more

This card is dated March 1914. Landwehr Ubung. No Landwehr cross. Why? Why not? Conventional wisom says that landwehr and reserve OR helmets had landwehr crosses. I think this is seldom the case. It surely happens but not as much as we "feel"