can anybody Identify these hats ,, Masonic

I wonder

New member
I am posting this because I was told by another forum that I should post my question here,so I am just sending a copy of the message I wrote to them. I wanted to place this in other forums but it is too difficult to understand how they work. but here it is in full

this is the first time I have done this and found it hard to even do this much. its so much to read and it's all so confusing.I may be on the wrong kind of forum so if anybody cad direct me to a suitable one please let me know.
I got a few german spike helmets with cone shaped boxes a few months ago for the taking away of from an old Masonic hall. THey are real ones. I have recently looked them up. They seem to be Bavarians officers and prussians. But I was offered quite a few strange looking hats too and they dont look entirely german so i only took 4. I think they may be for some sort of christian 'masonic' band or something of that sort because they have latin writing on them.
here is how they look. they have a strap very similar to the german spike helmets but the hats have a big sheild front, some silver others brass. On the front there is a large crown at the top and a very large star below that. In the star it says in latin SUUM QUIQUE. there is a small eagle in the middle of the stars. the hats at the back are sloped and red with white stripes .one in the centre and one at each side. At the sides it has a wavy white band and around this are 3 ball shapes with what looks like flames spouting from them. some have a banner across the star which says SEMPER TALIS
I am sure I am wasting time here so I will try post this same message on other more appropriate forums. I would like to know also if there are any books I could buy on german helmets with spikes. I would like to know more about them. all the books I see are about the kind of german helmets shown on these pages. i see this is a very serious site so i'll go now
 
I have just lookd at some of the thing(topics?) on this site and It's really good. I think If I keep looking on here I will find where I can buy books.

Are there Pricelists for pickelhaubes?

I would like to collect them but I can see no Price guide. If they are too expensive then I think collecting might be the wrong word.
I will spend time today looking through the site. Seems to be a lot to take in
 
Yes,, THat's the kind of hats! so they are German?
Where can I find out more abou them. Is there anyplace else on the site wher i can look. I am lost so far It's so much to look at
 
These are called Mitres and yes they would be German.

Post pics here and everyone will jump in with help, or if you cannot post pics, you can send me an e-mail and I will post them for you.

I will PM you with my e-mail address.

James
 
Hello I have been trying to work out how to post pictures. It's not easy to understand. I would do that if I could be shown how..,,,Can you advise?
 
here is a link to instructions for posting pics

James

http://pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4690
 
After literally hours trying to post pictures I have given up! The information I received does not work. I have sent some pics to one of your members who kindly offered to post them for me.
 
here are the 3 pictures of I Wonders Mitres I voluntered to post.

James

Masonichats0012.jpg


Masonichats0032.jpg


Masonichats0042.jpg
 
Wow, oh wow, oh wow, oh wow!!!

This is incredible. First, you may wish to go back and aquire everything else they have, even if you do not remotely think that anything else is German. Never turn anything down for free (a mother's first lesson to a child, right?)

It's amazing that it sounds like this Lodge was going to dispose of these, as they apparently gave you them for the "simple cost of physically carrying them away from their building". I'm dumbfounded to say the least. My congratulations on literally stumbling onto such a cache!

Congratulations,

Alan
 
I didn't stumble on them I put an advert in a local freepaper asking if anybody had agerman spike helmet. and I was contacted by them
 
C'mon loosen up, Alan is very happy for you as we all are, these types of things do not pop up every day, and yes, you did kind of stumble on to them, you where looking for spiked helmets and you gor offered these as well, you did not know what they where, and luckily you purchased them.

These are extremely valuable, and most collectors do not have them, so that is why not much for a response.

The reason yours is differant then others you see, is just like pickelhauben, there are other plates etc. so there are differant variations.


These are all Prussian Mitres for the 1st Grenadiers I beleive.

the one on the left is the Frist model worn until 1889

on the far right is the updated version where they added SEMPER TALIS to the front in 1889.

Value is exremely high if original, not saying these are not, but many fakes where done over the years. A hands on inspection is always good.


James
 
Hello,

Yes, I'm very happy and excited for you to aquire these mitres! They are a fantastic discovery!

Can you take pics of the other one w/the silver plate, and have James post the pics for you?

All the Best,

Alan Schaefer
 
Mr LeBrasseur, I was not being short with the person who said I stumbled on them. I was just letting him know how I got them, It appears I will have to be careful how I write replies.

I have took the advice of the person called checlegion and I am picking up anything that is there next teusday

The other one is just the same as these but silver. but one side of the fish scale part has come off so thats why I left it out of the pics

I have had messages telling me these could be valuable and others telling me they are worth as much as spike helmets. so I think I will sell them and see if I can buy some spike helmets. Or if anybody wants to swap helmet I would be interested to hear. The ones I have are really really beautiful I really like them
 
I am just doing this to see if I have managed putting on pictures
Here are some of the hats I got with the mitres, but 2 in here are from a man in exchange . One has a hair plume and the other is in the bottom left hand corner.It looks the same as one I saw yesterday on the forum. That cone shape next to them is a box. most of them were in boxes like this. the british ones are in tin cans a little different from that.
Anyway I dont expect they are much good compared to other people's on the forum but as I say It's only to see if I can post pics but I'm probably wasting my time



[img=http://a.imageshack.us/img805/7803/myhats001.th.jpg]
[img=http://a.imageshack.us/img844/4089/myhats002.th.jpg]


 
Hooray! I managed to put pics on! Maybe now somebody can tell me what I have if its not a Mecklenburg generals hat. I was sent a picture of one with silver parts except the badge. But I notice too that the little thing in the very centre of the badge is silver on the one I have and the one I was sent pictures of is gold. Is this something that could explain the difference. I can send more pics if they are needed now that I know how to.



 
Well you certainly have lucked out here. I am refering to the group shot of the 11 helmets plus one helmet case...a collcetors dream! I am going to give you some rough identifications. Starting with the first row: L to Rt, Hessen officer helmet, Prussian Officer with dammaged helmet plate (missing the sceptre), Bavarian Officer.
Row 2: Bavarian ordinary ranks private purchase., Ditto, Prussian Officer, Saxon artillery officer (ball top)
Row 3: Bavarian ORs, Bavarian Pioneer officer, Bavarian officer, Prussian officer with white buffalo hair parade plume.
Thank you for your second pic of the interiors. All of these are officer private purchase liners. These helmets were not issued by the German government as is the case with ordinary soldiers. These were all purchased by officers or individuals who could afford a better grade of helmet.
A more precise identification could be made if you posted individual close up pics of each helmet. As to value, these are valuable helmets, so educate yourself about them and do not make any rash decisions. The mitres if original are even more rare and valuable than the individual spike helmets. Regards, Brian
 
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