Cork helmet

9

911car

Well-known member
I posted this when the forum was down for maintenance. Now it has been sold (the helmet, not the forum).
Hopefully to someone from the forum. A great item, 100% authentic and of known history, which I am well aware of. A great seller too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Casque-a-pointe-ersatz-liege-attribue-Souv-du-Lt-J-T-4e-Zouave-Pickelhaube/264475388253?hash=item3d93f6295d:g:m6gAAOSw~WhdiPE5
 
I followed it too....

A crazy price for a helmet without regimentation and with name in it which is impossibe to track....There was no single "BÄGELIACK" in the whole german army....
I though it could maybe be "BÜGELSACK" or "BÖGELSACK" as those names have existed, but it really looks like "BÄGELIACK" :(

Hoping that the seller could satisfy the buyer with some better informations about the bringing home of this helmet by this "Lieutenant du 4ème Zouaves" :?

Here are the picts for the posterity.... It is always good to have them saved.

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Philippe
:wink:
 
It really looks like BÄGELIACK and I cannot find any info of this guy as well.

As much as I want to believe that the helmet is original, I do have a bit of doubts. My hubby insisted that it's a fake.

The way that the stitching goes, it belongs to the football style ersatz helmet, however I only got to know that of all the states, only Saxon has the football style ersatz and it is covered by leather and not canvas. The chinstrap may look like made of the same material as the canvas cover but a closer look doesn't seem like it.

I also could not locate the manufacturer as stamped on the liner.

Anyone with any other info?
 
The most obvious of several red flags, is that rust always bleed into any nearby cloth. To me this appears to be harvested parts from a beater M15 placed on a modern replica shell to deceive..
 
Tony without Kaiser said:
The most obvious of several red flags, is that rust always bleed into any nearby cloth. To me this appears to be harvested parts from a beater M15 placed on a modern replica shell to deceive..
Click to expand...

Tony, I know the very history of this helmet, where and how it was found... if it is a fake, it was made in 1918.
No way.
 
The minute i seen this one on ebay i knew it would go high price
Its fully original and even went allong with the bidding but had to stop at some point becose it went far over my buget
I have a similar one in my collection and as amy statet mine is the saxon one
The football shape one with leather covered instead of canvas

Jonas
 
Hmm I am wrong too. My hubby is certainly wrong then.

But how would one explain the name of the soldier in the helmet?
 
Amybellars said:
Hmm I am wrong too. My hubby is certainly wrong then.

But how would one explain the name of the soldier in the helmet?
Click to expand...

The placement of the name in the helmet certainly leads one to believe that it belongs to the owner; however, I have a Model 1916 Stahlhelm with the name Roger Phillips in it and a mailing Address to Miss Mae Phillips, Rochester Indiana, in three different places. It is entirely possible that BÄGELIACK is the name of someone who simply picked up the helmet or collected it at some point in time.

Just a thought.

John :o
 
A rough tought ,have you tryed putting bägeltack in the rangliste instead of bägeliack
Mayby could leed to somewhere

Jonas
 
kaiser said:
have you tryed putting bägeltack in the rangliste instead of bägeliack
Mayby could leed to somewhere
Click to expand...

Already tried all the possibilities bei entering only "BÄGEL****" and then you have all the names beginning with those 5 letters. There is only the name "BÄGELER" which is coming out....I also tried "BAEGEL***", because "Ä" = "AE" in german....Absolutely nothing....I also tried "B*****ACK"...Nothing, nothing, nothing similar....Even today, such a name does not exist in Germany.

Yes, maybe the name of a guy who picked up this helmet or owned it for some period in his collection...The "Ä" is typical for a german name...The initials of the Lieutenant de Zouaves were JT...We will never know...

Are you sure that all fittings are steel? :-k Could also be brass with verdigris....

Philippe
:wink:
 
kaiser said:
The minute i seen this one on ebay i knew it would go high price
Its fully original and even went allong with the bidding but had to stop at some point becose it went far over my buget
I have a similar one in my collection and as amy statet mine is the saxon one
The football shape one with leather covered instead of canvas

Jonas
Click to expand...

Jonas,
show me yours and I will show you mine :o

Sounds wrong, I mean show me your Saxon football ersatz. :D
 
Here is one from a repair depot, that replaced the (probably broken) cork front and rear visors with leather visors, and also sewed a new liner in.

Note the stitching is exactly front, sides, rear, which is what I have seen on all cork examples that I can recall. Which is why the ebay one made me skeptical.

Cork_Ersatz1.jpg


Cork_Ersatz2.jpg
 
I think we have to clarify...

Can we be sure that the ebay helmet really is a cork pattern? The seller wrote it but I am not so sure...

I always use to think that typical cork helmets always had a special chinstrap attachment, like this one sold by Baldwin as a cork helmet and that I unfortunately missed, because it had a perfect trackable wearers name in it...The stitching is like yours, Tony, but not the chinstrap pattern.



Two other helmets, also sold by Baldwin. It is not mentioned that they are made of cork, the stitching is the same as the ebay helmet, not exactly front, sides, rear..




Philippe
:wink:
 
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