Defenders of Tsingtau curios photo

chrispaulodale

chrispaulodale

Active member
Here's a curious one that I can't fathom out-

6522020481_372b595bc8_z.jpg


from http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/6522020481" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The same photo appeared in Haupt's Schutztruppe book claiming they were Tsingtau Landsturm. But something's very odd here- the shoulder straps look like a crowned W possibly and they have a star badge below their cockades on the cap...

Any thoughts?

Cheers
Chris
 
I believe these are British or British Commonwealth troops. The rifles appear to be English Lee Metford Mark II*'s.

Reservist1
 
I agree, those ore British troops, I can not explain the Kockard on some of the caps, did the British have a regiment that was named after Wilhelm? as was the custom in mot European militaries?
Best
gsu
 
I can't make out the cap badge and I'm no expert on uniforms, but they don't look British to me. Apart from the cockades, the unit markings on the epaulettes, the leather gaiters, and the belts in particular don't chime with anything British that I can think of just now, unless they're some sort of dismounted cavalry, which the gaiters and bandoliers suggests to me? However, a quick bit of research indicates that the British forces were 1,000 infantrymen from the South Wales Border Regt (whose cap badge is nothing like a star) and 500 from 36th Sikhs,and these guys obviously aren't Sikhs.

So far as I can see only Germans, Brits and Japanese were involved, but if you guys don't think they're Germans it's got me wondering if there was a contingent from another country involved on one side or another?

Anyway that's my two pence worth-happy to be proved wrong!

Final thought-why would the writing on the photo be in English if these were actually the 'defenders' -surely it would be in German? If they are indeed British troops the caption should read 'The attackers ...' or 'besiegers...'

Look forward to somebody solving this!

Patrick
 
The tunics do look German, but the rifles are definitely long Enfields, and I do not think the British sold any of those to foreign powers other than their own colonials. The caps are nothing like any German cap I have ever seen. Maybe is is German soldiers fooling around with British gear? but that seems unlikely.
Best
Gus
 
Apparently the German forces consisted of ' the marines of III. Seebataillon, naval personnel and soldiers (Chinese colonial troops and Austro-Hungarian sailors) for a total strength of 3,625 men under arms.' Don't know if this sheds any extra light on the question.

These are apparently photos of members of the Seebataillon at the siege http://www.cityofart.net/bship/seebatalion_Tsingtau_1912.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/Tsing_Tao/Tsing_Tao_20.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Patrick
 
Thanks for the replies and well spotted with the rifles chaps... yes, they are British. The ammunition bandoliers look like British 1903 model too.

My thoughts are they are from the German company of the Shanghai Volunteer Corps, who wore a mixture of German and British uniforms with British weapons. See my old article here-
http://s400910952.websitehome.co.uk/germancolonialuniforms/SVC.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would love to know though if this photo was definatley taken at Tsingtau. I've never found confirmation yet that the German SVC got to Tsingtau... this may be that confirmation. Has anyone else any information on what the SVC did at the outbreak of war?

Cheers
Chris
 
Chris

Based on your article, the badge and the blown up photo, I'm sure you're right about the men belonging to the SVC. As to the photo really having been taken at Tsingtau, I think that's a whole other question. They're certainly not mentioned in anything I've looked at since I read your first post but they would only have been a fairly small unit I guess. Could be in the 'reserves and auxiliaries 'category mentioned below?.

this i the most detailed thing I've found;


Tsingtao Garrison

Some 750 naval gunners manned the various batteries of the base. Another 180 men held signaling, staff and logistical positions. About 100 Chinese policemen kept internal order. The Third Sea Battalion of about 1,300 men formed the actual garrison, consisting of 4 infantry companies (210 men each), 1 cavalry company (140 men), 1 field artillery battery (133 men, six 7.7 cm. Krupp field guns), 1 engineering company (108 men) and 2 horse-drawn machine-gun companies (38 men and 6 machine-guns each). In Tientsin and Peking, the East Asiatic Naval Detachment deployed 4 infantry companies (100 men each), 1 machine-gun battalion (60 men and 14 machine-guns) and two artillery sections (three 8 cm. field guns and three 15 cm. howitzers). All these forces except the three 8 cm. field guns reached Tsingtao.

Reservists added about 1,500 men to the garrison, swelling auxiliary forces as well as adding 2 more infantry companies to the Third Sea Battalion. Counting sailors, guns and machine-guns landed from ships, the garrison disposed of about 4,000 men, 120 machine-guns and 90 guns

link;http://www.gwpda.org/naval/tsingtao.htm

Patrick
 
You're right Patrick about the big question being did the SVC serve at Tsingtau. I could find nothing either, so I emailed the http://www.tsingtau.info/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; website. This was their reply-

"one of the POW, Beushausen, has written that about 40 Germans from Shanghai were members of the SVC (German section); they all were integrated into the 7th company if the III. Sea Battalion. One of them, for example, was Wilhelm Meller (see http://www.meller-leo.de/buch/2006/03/heirat-meiner-eltern.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)."

So maybe these are men of the 7th Komp?

Cheers
Chris
 
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