Der Kaiser
- Thread starter ebeeby
- Start date
Pierre Grande Guerre
New member
Thanks, Glenn! :bravo: As I wrote above more or less: I have to restudy this phenomenon. 
I was wrong.
I was wrong.
RON
Well-known member
Pierre, Glenn, the photo I posted of the Kaiser & his wife in exile was recently for sale on eBay (see link above)...
As for Glenn's B-Day photo, I'm wondering were all these officers exiled as well, still on active duty in post-war Germany or simply retired--or forced to following the Versailles Treaty and the downsizing of the Heer as the younger figure in the photo (first from the right) would suggest?
Another thing I don't uderstand: Why did some, including Wilhelm, feel the need to wear Überzugs on their pickelhaubes??
As for Glenn's B-Day photo, I'm wondering were all these officers exiled as well, still on active duty in post-war Germany or simply retired--or forced to following the Versailles Treaty and the downsizing of the Heer as the younger figure in the photo (first from the right) would suggest?
Another thing I don't uderstand: Why did some, including Wilhelm, feel the need to wear Überzugs on their pickelhaubes??
Ron,
my thoughts exactly on the Überzuge! These guys were all former Generaladjutanten/Flügeladjutanten of the Kaiser and King. As I understand the situation, they voluntarily accompanied Wilhelm although not all of them were employed with him at the same time. The youngish looking chap is Hauptmann a.D. Sigurd v. Ilsemann who wrote the book Der Kaiser in Holland. The two naval officers are Vizeadmiral a.D. and Admiral à la suite Adolf v. Trotha and Fregattenkapitän a.D. Nikolaus Burggraf und Graf zu Dohna-Schlodien
Regards
Glenn
my thoughts exactly on the Überzuge! These guys were all former Generaladjutanten/Flügeladjutanten of the Kaiser and King. As I understand the situation, they voluntarily accompanied Wilhelm although not all of them were employed with him at the same time. The youngish looking chap is Hauptmann a.D. Sigurd v. Ilsemann who wrote the book Der Kaiser in Holland. The two naval officers are Vizeadmiral a.D. and Admiral à la suite Adolf v. Trotha and Fregattenkapitän a.D. Nikolaus Burggraf und Graf zu Dohna-Schlodien
Regards
Glenn
edwin
Active member
Despite being neutral to the outside world, the Netherlands strongly sympathized with the Germans. In fact, some important Dutch politicians of that time were pro-German, including the prime minister and, as discussed above, the Netherlands accomodated the Kaiser and little Willie after the war. Moreover, the Dutch government refused to extradite the Kaiser as a war crimimal to the allies. This was another indication to the allies that the Netherlands were pro-German and clearly not as neutral as they claimed to be. The latter enabled the Netharlands to trade with the Germans and make a good profit out of the war, which, again, aroused suspicion by the allies about the so-called Dutch neutrality.
Regards,
Edwin
Regards,
Edwin
Pierre Grande Guerre
New member
Edwin, it is true what you write here, but also a bit out of balance or out of proportion, almost suggesting that the Dutch government was in fact all the time pro-German. The situation was not that black and white, as you describe it here.
It is true that some cabinet members were pro-German, Edwin, but the prime minister, Cort van der Linden, felt himself permanently like a rope-dancer to keep the balance of this always fragile neutrality. The Netherlands always have been and will be also in the future dependent on the German economical situation. "If it rains in Germany we will get wet too.”, one might say. To maintain the neutrality and the maximum of independence as possible of the neighbouring countries, "at all costs", was Cort van der Linden's main political goal.
Of course many Dutch entrepreneurs earned tons of money, Edwin, like for instance by supplying the Germans with all the raw materials to build their 750 km. long line of concrete bunkers along the Western Front. The government did not earn that much from the war, as all these individual businessmen and companies did.
The neutrality of Holland was permanent in danger and it was a hell of a job for Cort van der Linden to maintain this neutrality. (Source: a lecture of Paul Moeyes at the Dutch WFA). There were some moments that one of the belligerent parties were so upset with Holland, that there existed in these moments a real threat of occupation of our post stamp sized country by either the British or the Germans.
But indeed, Edwin, you can argue and discuss a lot about the neutrality of the always in some way or another dependent Netherlands. And anyway, you are right, Holland was not that strictly neutral, as one should expect at first sight, and it sometimes choose secretly sides, depending on the complicated situation.
It is true that some cabinet members were pro-German, Edwin, but the prime minister, Cort van der Linden, felt himself permanently like a rope-dancer to keep the balance of this always fragile neutrality. The Netherlands always have been and will be also in the future dependent on the German economical situation. "If it rains in Germany we will get wet too.”, one might say. To maintain the neutrality and the maximum of independence as possible of the neighbouring countries, "at all costs", was Cort van der Linden's main political goal.
Of course many Dutch entrepreneurs earned tons of money, Edwin, like for instance by supplying the Germans with all the raw materials to build their 750 km. long line of concrete bunkers along the Western Front. The government did not earn that much from the war, as all these individual businessmen and companies did.
The neutrality of Holland was permanent in danger and it was a hell of a job for Cort van der Linden to maintain this neutrality. (Source: a lecture of Paul Moeyes at the Dutch WFA). There were some moments that one of the belligerent parties were so upset with Holland, that there existed in these moments a real threat of occupation of our post stamp sized country by either the British or the Germans.
But indeed, Edwin, you can argue and discuss a lot about the neutrality of the always in some way or another dependent Netherlands. And anyway, you are right, Holland was not that strictly neutral, as one should expect at first sight, and it sometimes choose secretly sides, depending on the complicated situation.
edwin
Active member
Pierre Grande Guerre said:Edwin, it is true what you write here, but also a bit out of balance or out of proportion, almost suggesting that the Dutch government was in fact all the time pro-German. The situation was not that black and white, as you describe it here.
It is true that some cabinet members were pro-German, Edwin, but the prime minister, Cort van der Linden, felt himself permanently like a rope-dancer to keep the balance of this always fragile neutrality. The Netherlands always have been and will be also in the future dependent on the German economical situation. "If it rains in Germany we will get wet too.”, one might say. To maintain the neutrality and the maximum of independence as possible of the neighbouring countries, "at all costs", was Cort van der Linden's main political goal.
Of course many Dutch entrepreneurs earned tons of money, Edwin, like for instance by supplying the Germans with all the raw materials to build their 750 km. long line of concrete bunkers along the Western Front. The government did not earn that much from the war, as all these individual businessmen and companies did.
The neutrality of Holland was permanent in danger and it was a hell of a job for Cort van der Linden to maintain this neutrality. (Source: a lecture of Paul Moeyes at the Dutch WFA). There were some moments that one of the belligerent parties were so upset with Holland, that there existed in these moments a real threat of occupation of our post stamp sized country by either the British or the Germans.
But indeed, Edwin, you can argue and discuss a lot about the neutrality of the always in some way or another dependent Netherlands. And anyway, you are right, Holland was not that strictly neutral, as one should expect at first sight, and it sometimes choose secretly sides, depending on the complicated situation.
I agree that Holland was in a complicated situation during ww1. Although I don't know much about this topic when compared to, for example, the battle of the somme, I tend to believe that the Dutch government was not that neutral, which is nicely illustrated by the nickname of Cort van der Linden "unter den linden" to emphasize his pro-german views. Its always difficult to maintain strict neutrailty for any country during a war. The latter was also experienced by Sweden during the second world war. The Nazis needed the Swedish iron ore for their war industry which put the Swedish government in an intricate and debatable situation.
Regards,
Edwin
Pierre Grande Guerre
New member
The Dutch government halves it subsidies to the Huis Doorn, the Kaiser's Exile. Its existence is now threatened and it may lead to the closure of Huis Doorn in 2013! Visit the Kaiser's Exile in Holland virtually via my website, http://pierreswesternfront.punt.nl/?id=410295&r=1&tbl_archief&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and afterwards you will understand how important and worthwhile for history the conservation of this manor is. Below you will find a Dutch newspaper article concerning this bad news.
Source: http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/4496/Buitenland/article/detail/3317917/2012/09/18/Duitsland-Behoud-Huis-Doorn-graf-van-onze-laatste-keizer.dhtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .
edwin
Active member
Pierre Grande Guerre said:
This is such a shame and just because of ordinary budget cuts by our government. Its painfully obvious that our country is led by barbarians, resulting in the complete destruction of anything with historical and cultural significance. This and many other cultural items could be saved by abolishing our tax payers money-consuming monarchy :x
Regards,
Edwin
Khukri
Well-known member
On Dutch television:
The Kaiser's Adjutant in the Netherlands. Sigurd von Ilsemann
Huis Doorn received money from the National Lottery !! 450000 Euro
From September-October 2014 on Huis Doorn will have a permanent exhibition on WW I-next to the collection in the Huis Doorn!
Fingers crossed...
Let's hope (part of) the fantastic collection of headgear-uniforms and edged weapons will be on display then.
We have to arrange a Forum meet then :thumb up:
Francis
The Kaiser's Adjutant in the Netherlands. Sigurd von Ilsemann
Huis Doorn received money from the National Lottery !! 450000 Euro
From September-October 2014 on Huis Doorn will have a permanent exhibition on WW I-next to the collection in the Huis Doorn!
Fingers crossed...
Let's hope (part of) the fantastic collection of headgear-uniforms and edged weapons will be on display then.
We have to arrange a Forum meet then :thumb up:
Francis