Dragoner Style OR's Helmet RG 12

b.loree

b.loree

Administrator
Staff member
Asking for some help from the membership here. We have a Dragoner style helmet missing wappen and marked RG 12. Can anyone ID this to a particular Regiment? Fittings are brass and grommet holes are close together which might suggest Saxe or Bavarian. However, there are no Saxe Dragoners and the Bavarians did not have two rivets on the rear spine. Not shown is a trichter with black haarbusch which comes with the piece.
image2 (1).jpeg
Squared visor
image3 (2).jpeg
Dragoner spine.
image4.jpeg
Comments are appreciated.
 
b.loree said:
Asking for some help from the membership here. We have a Dragoner style helmet missing wappen and marked RG 12. Can anyone ID this to a particular Regiment? Fittings are brass and grommet holes are close together which might suggest Saxe or Bavarian. However, there are no Saxe Dragoners and the Bavarians did not have two rivets on the rear spine. Not shown is a trichter with black haarbusch which comes with the piece.
View attachment 65052
Squared visor
View attachment 65053
Dragoner spine.
View attachment 65054
Comments are appreciated.
Click to expand...
Are the Kammer issue stamps located where you can take a photo of them ?
Steve
 
What do the wappen centers measure? I have a Wurtemburg officer helmet that has 2 5/8” centers. Double brads on the spine sounds odd though. Other than Hessia, who used double brads? On a Bavarian, isn’t the front cruciform leg hole farther forward near the tip? Maybe the spine needed to be replaced and that is what they had available.

Ron
 
A dragoner helmet that is not a dragoner helmet, ided with a G. One thinks immediately of Gendarmerie, principally Feldgendarmerie. Why a R? There was a Reichsgendarmerie, but they did not wear the dragoner-style helmet.
 
Si, RG12 pour Reichsgendarmerie 1912. Deux casques "kammer"
---le M95 d'enrolé avec le Reichsadler pour Reichsgendarm zu Fuss.
---Le M95 de Dragon prussien mais avec Reichsadler pour Reichsgendarm zu Pferde.

A noter que le Reichsadler est moins large que le Linienadler, d'où l'écartement étroit des œillets.
Je mettrai des photos d'époque à mon retour de vacances (et traducrion).
 
CLOVIS 57 said:
Si, RG12 pour Reichsgendarmerie 1912. Deux casques "kammer"
---le M95 d'enrolé avec le Reichsadler pour Reichsgendarm zu Fuss.
---Le M95 de Dragon prussien mais avec Reichsadler pour Reichsgendarm zu Pferde.

A noter que le Reichsadler est moins large que le Linienadler, d'où l'écartement étroit des œillets.
Je mettrai des photos d'époque à mon retour de vacances (et traducrion).
Click to expand...
Clovis says I was right suggesting RG stands for Reichsgendarmerie. However, I knew the RG helmet as an infantry-type helmet with a round visor and spike base and the special Reichsadler, but I had forgotten about the "zu Pferd" variant.
Indeed, Clovis added that mounted Reichsgendarmerie did wear the Dragoner helmet, with the Reichsadler of course.

Then, Brian's helmet may have been identified: mounted Reichsgendarmerie, 1912.
 
Impressive detective work Bruno and Clovis!

Looks like we need a new group badge, Pickelhaube Pathologist's!
 
Thank you Bruno for Translate.
Thank's for sharing Zeb.
Nice and exatly that i want to speak!!!.
 
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Thank you very much gentlemen! I believe that you have conclusively identified this helmet and I will pass on the information to the owner and direct him to your posts. This helmet comes from an old collection recently purchased by my contact. Included in this lot is the very wappen shown in these photos so now we know where it belongs! One last question did the RG wear a parade trichter? Like the wappen there is a black trichter associated with this helmet. My thanks to all!
 
So specifically from the fotos posted the helmet first posted by me is...... Reich Gendarmerie zu pferd. I have never heard of or seen the helmets from this organization....what did they do? Did the mounted units patrol the border for example?? Were these units a Reich police force or something else? My thanks for any information.
 
b.loree said:
So specifically from the fotos posted the helmet first posted by me is...... Reich Gendarmerie zu pferd. I have never heard of or seen the helmets from this organization....what did they do? Did the mounted units patrol the border for example?? Were these units a Reich police force or something else? My thanks for any information.
Click to expand...
Brian, others on the forum probably know much more than I do. Reichsgendarmerie was military police under federal, not local administration. Tough guys by reputation, similar to Landgendarmerie. They enforced military law in the field, chasing deserters, looters, arsonists... Reichsgendarmerie is usually referred to as enforcing military law in Elsass and Lothringen (Alsace and Lorraine), two French Eastern regions that were annexed by the German Empire after the 1871 defeat, but were returned to France in 1919 (Traite de Versailles). I do not know if Reichsgendarmerie operated in other regions of the Reich. Since Elsass and Lothringen were then bordered by France to the West, Reichsgendarmes were certainly also patrolling the border!
 
That clears it up thank you Bruno! I will pass that on to the owner. the only question remaining is the black trichter which came with the helmet. Did these RG's wear the trichter? The background story: My contact bought a small collection recently and was told it was brought back by a WW1 veteran, I don't know how many helmets but I have seen two, this and a Prussian Inf. officer. I was told that most of the helmets purchased came with their travelling cases. I have been asked to do some restoration on these items so there will probably be more posts in future.
 
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