Dragoon helmet opinion

Amybellars

Well-known member
Hi guys

I need help.

I assume this helmet has the wrong badge based on the markings. So what badge shd it have? A prussian heraldic Eagle to match the 3FdAR or a dragoon badge to match DR5.

Also how does one explains that this example did not have he 2 external studs on the rear spine as like other dragoon helmets.

Thank you
Amy Bellars
 

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2nd.Leibhusar

Active member
Hi Amy, I know Bavarian Artillery used square visors ( Kreuzbeschlag ) but it must have a so called" gekehlte Spitze" and not a ball on top.
Bavaria adopted the ball in 1916 and this helmet is an older one...
 

911car

Well-known member
It looks like the offspring of a Garde Dragoner Unteroffizier helmet X a 3rd Feld Artillerie hat. The Garde eagle gene was dominant over the FWR eagle with Colberg scroll gene though.
An illegitimate mating anyway.
Is this yours, Amy?
 

Sandmann

Well-known member
I tried to make the stamps more visible and would say that it shows:

4.l.B. (4. leichte Batterie)
3. Fd.A.R. (3. Feld-Artillerie-Regiment)

A 3. FAR existed also from Württemberg (FAR Nr. 49) and had light and heavy batteries. That’s why I could imagine that it is a NCO helmet of FAR Nr. 49, just with a wrong plate. Further I think I can see the ghost of the Württ-Shield on the last pic.
 

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Amybellars

Well-known member
It looks like the offspring of a Garde Dragoner Unteroffizier helmet X a 3rd Feld Artillerie hat. The Garde eagle gene was dominant over the FWR eagle with Colberg scroll gene though.
An illegitimate mating anyway.
Is this yours, Amy?
Yes it's in my collection. Am currently clearing out to make space.
 

Amybellars

Well-known member
I tried to make the stamps more visible and would say that it shows:

4.l.B. (4. leichte Batterie)
3. Fd.A.R. (3. Feld-Artillerie-Regiment)

A 3. FAR existed also from Württemberg (FAR Nr. 49) and had light and heavy batteries. That’s why I could imagine that it is a NCO helmet of FAR Nr. 49, just with a wrong plate. Further I think I can see the ghost of the Württ-Shield on the last pic.
Thank you sandy. Will try my wurttemberg plate on it tmr
 

911car

Well-known member
On the other hand, the comment by 2nd Leibhusar is interesting: it might be the Bavarian 3rd FdA regiment with the wrong plate, the ball finial being original or not.
This is the most likely explanation, in my opinion.
 

911car

Well-known member
I tried to make the stamps more visible and would say that it shows:

4.l.B. (4. leichte Batterie)
3. Fd.A.R. (3. Feld-Artillerie-Regiment)

A 3. FAR existed also from Württemberg (FAR Nr. 49) and had light and heavy batteries. That’s why I could imagine that it is a NCO helmet of FAR Nr. 49, just with a wrong plate. Further I think I can see the ghost of the Württ-Shield on the last pic.
Good point. On the right may also be the shape of a deer. I am only surprised that the regimental marking would not be FdAR49.
 

Sandmann

Well-known member
You're right, 3rd Bavarian makes more sense. I thought wurtt because it only has 1 deviation and I did't see a reason why someone who knows that an artillery helmet has a ball on it would screw a wrong top on it. But in the end I started my thoughts wrong.
 

JohnS3rd

Well-known member
Thanks, Y'all,
This examination of Amey's Kugelhaube has been an education for me and, I suspect, for others too.
Best regards,
John
 

Amybellars

Well-known member
Guys thank you for all the advice

The haube now has a spike cos Bavarian only adopt the kugel in 1916 and helmet is year marked 1915.

My only Bavarian screw post wappen fit perfectly but it is too shiny as compared to the rest of the fitting. The wappen will sit on it for the time being until I find a more subtle patina wappen and it also needs cockades and the M94 convex chinscales

Regards
Amy Bellars
 

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Peter B

Active member
Guys thank you for all the advice

The haube now has a spike cos Bavarian only adopt the kugel in 1916 and helmet is year marked 1915.

My only Bavarian screw post wappen fit perfectly but it is too shiny as compared to the rest of the fitting. The wappen will sit on it for the time being until I find a more subtle patina wappen and it also needs cockades and the M94 convex chinscales

Regards
Amy Bellars
Hey Amy.

Just a thought.

Even though the helmet would originally not have had a kugel, it might have been added when the regulation changed and so also belong to the helmet? Therefore you could do as you have and change it back to when it was first issued or perhaps leave the kugel that the soldier added later when he was told to when the rules changed.

I am not sure if old timers would have been allowed to keep their original spike?

Just a thought. Gives you options.

Peter
 

Amybellars

Well-known member
Hey Amy.

Just a thought.

Even though the helmet would originally not have had a kugel, it might have been added when the regulation changed and so also belong to the helmet? Therefore you could do as you have and change it back to when it was first issued or perhaps leave the kugel that the soldier added later when he was told to when the rules changed.

I am not sure if old timers would have been allowed to keep their original spike?

Just a thought. Gives you options.

Peter
Hi Peter

Thanks for the option.

A look where the spike unscrew shows the shiny part of the brass so am sure it was a spike that was on it.


Regards
 

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