Dragoon Helmet

wayne8661

Member
I have been wanting one of these Dragoon helmets and this seller lives about 9 miles from me. Are there any obvious issues that stick out to the more experienced Forum Members.

PS I want a Dragoon Helmet to display with a 1910 Luger Unit marked to 8.D


 
Wayne,

Overall, it's not a bad helmet. It's good but has some minor faults. I see the following:

Cross on Wappen Eagle crown is broken off.
Tip of the spike seems damaged. Does it screw on tightly or is it loose?
Little bit of damage to the liner but not terrible.

If I were in your shoes, I would message him with those issues and see if he can do anything with the price. The price seems a little high and more in line with an almost perfect example. In addition, since you are close to him you might mention it would be easier that you can pick it up instead of shipping it.

Good Luck!

John
 
I agree with John. Moreover, a Dragoner helmet should have a rear spine affixed with two large round-headed studs, not one like this with aerator. I am not sure if this variation existed.
And cockades are of course copies.
 
Wow... Boy, did I overlook the obvious!!!! Here I was looking at the minutia! Bruno is completely right! Thank you for the save Bruno!
 
I agree with John. Moreover, a Dragoner helmet should have a rear spine affixed with two large round-headed studs, not one like this with aerator. I am not sure if this variation existed.
And cockades are of course copies.
I agree. I did some research on this very thing and found that most of these helmets with a vented spine were used by the Landesgendarmerie. Look at the Weitze website and you will find several examples, all marked to the LG (unless, of course, he sold them).
Does this helmet have double Wappen holes? The LG generally used a swept wing Wappen and other holes were filled.

John
 
Wayne,

Just to recap what Bruno, John and myself have pointed out, there are marked problems with that helmet. That is a lot of money to spend on an fundamentally faulted helmet. You can never explain away the incorrect rear spine. Even if the helmet was depot marked to a dragoner regiment, the slotted rear spine would be incorrect.

Again, if I were in your shoes, I would pass on this helmet until a better example comes along especially at that price point.

John
 
Hello guys,

I agree with Bruno about the rear spine and the cokades. I would add that this exemple on ebay seems to have no regimental stamps...Better if such helmets have one...
Here is mine, recently found in France, 4. Eskadron DR7. The wearer, Franz MINDERMANN was taken prisoner during the very first patrol of the DR7, on the 05.08.14 near Geistkirch (Juvelize) by a french cavalry patrol of the 17ème Chasseur à Cheval of Lunéville. One of the very first brought back helmet of WWI. MINDERMANN ist first mentioned as KIA on the very first page of the german Verluslisten with 8,5 millions names.

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/5069

Then very lately in a 1918 publication, he is mentionned as have been prisoner all the time in France and liberated in October 1918:


Philippe
;)


dragon1.JPGdragon5.JPGdragon7.JPGdragon9.JPGdragon11.JPGdragon14.JPGdragon20.JPGdragon27.jpgmindermann1.jpg
mindermann4.jpg
 
Hello guys,

I agree with Bruno about the rear spine and the cokades. I would add that this exemple on ebay seems to have no regimental stamps...Better if such helmets have one...
Here is mine, recently found in France, 4. Eskadron DR7. The wearer, Franz MINDERMANN was taken prisoner during the very first patrol of the DR7, on the 05.08.14 near Geistkirch (Juvelize) by a french cavalry patrol of the 17ème Chasseur à Cheval of Lunéville. One of the very first brought back helmet of WWI. MINDERMANN ist first mentioned as KIA on the very first page of the german Verluslisten with 8,5 millions names.

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/5069

Then very lately in a 1918 publication, he is mentionned as have been prisoner all the time in France and liberated in October 1918:


Philippe
;)


View attachment 15284View attachment 15285View attachment 15286View attachment 15287View attachment 15288View attachment 15289View attachment 15290View attachment 15291View attachment 15292
View attachment 15293
This is a great one, Philippe. Perfect in every respect. I am jealous. Then, poor Franz was taken prisoner on the 3rd day of WW1, and liberated 3 weeks before the armistice!! And what is "Palois"? In normally means "from the city of Pau"...
 
Wayne,

Overall, it's not a bad helmet. It's good but has some minor faults. I see the following:

Cross on Wappen Eagle crown is broken off.
Tip of the spike seems damaged. Does it screw on tightly or is it loose?
Little bit of damage to the liner but not terrible.

If I were in your shoes, I would message him with those issues and see if he can do anything with the price. The price seems a little high and more in line with an almost perfect example. In addition, since you are close to him you might mention it would be easier that you can pick it up instead of shipping it.

Good Luck!

John
If you know where I can get a perfect example Prussian Enlisted Dragoon helmet for $950.00 please let me know. The examples I find are generally twice that much.

John
 
if anyone knows of one for sale please let me know.
I don't know how to pm someone on this new forum set-up. I started a conversation with you but I'm not sure you got it.
I know this will not make me popular, but I, for one, do not like this new format.

John
 
It threw me at first John but basically it's like chat or messaging on a phone. You start a conversation and then the person responds and you have the whole conversation string in one spot. No need for multiple messages in your inbox. You'll only know if they got it when they answer and you will see a notification.

Personally now that I have figured it out I like it better. In the old system your message sat in the outbox until they read it so yes you know when they got it but I found it frustrating that it just didn't say sent.

Just my thoughts.

Peter
 
This is a great one, Philippe. Perfect in every respect. I am jealous. Then, poor Franz was taken prisoner on the 3rd day of WW1, and liberated 3 weeks before the armistice!! And what is "Palois"? In normally means "from the city of Pau"...
Bruno, I have the clue. As a further document of the red cross is mentionning that Franz MINDERMANN was prisoner at Belle Île, we can assume that we have here a mistake with Palois. It means Palais, which is a small village on the island of Belle-Île.

Philippe
;)
mindermann2.jpgpalais.jpg
 
Bruno, I have the clue. As a further document of the red cross is mentionning that Franz MINDERMANN was prisoner at Belle Île, we can assume that we have here a mistake with Palois. It means Palais, which is a small village on the island of Belle-Île.

Philippe
;)
View attachment 15329View attachment 15330
Of course, Philippe, Le Palais! I have been there more than once. Belle-Ile is a little paradise. What I ignored is that thousands of German soldiers - and hundreds of officers - had been detained there from 1914 to 1920.
Below is a newspaper picture dated of November 1914 showing German soldiers en route to Belle-Ile.

UNION-III. - Navire à passagers - .jpg
 
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