East Asia

pointystuff

pointystuff

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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Imperial-German-Boxer-Rebellion-Ersatz-Picklehaube-RARE-/361120376590?ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:3160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
This not a fantasy piece, but is correct for the East Asian pattern helmet, felt over leather bowl, elongated vents on spike, grey leather visors. All the documented originals I've seen had rear spines. The photos are not good enough for me to comment on the originality of this piece. There are some features that look really good and then there are a couple that I don't know about.
 
aicusv said:
This not a fantasy piece, but is correct for the East Asian pattern helmet, felt over leather bowl, elongated vents on spike, grey leather visors. All the documented originals I've seen had rear spines. The photos are not good enough for me to comment on the originality of this piece. There are some features that look really good and then there are a couple that I don't know about.
Click to expand...

Then I stand corrected. Why was the felt used? I don't know a lot about these particular helmets.
 
aicusv said:
This not a fantasy piece, but is correct for the East Asian pattern helmet, felt over leather bowl, elongated vents on spike, grey leather visors. All the documented originals I've seen had rear spines. The photos are not good enough for me to comment on the originality of this piece. There are some features that look really good and then there are a couple that I don't know about.
Click to expand...

I agree with you... except for the rear spine. These Ostasiatische-Besatzungs-Brigade helmets normally came without a rear spine, but there may have been exceptions. Similar felt-covered leather helmets were produced around 1905 as regular infantry "trial helmets". This one looks good overall. The main problem is that the spike base should not be affixed with the usual domed rivets. On these models the spike and its base were entirely detachable and screwed into a green painted cup-like element located inside the shell. The spike could be removed and replaced by this little cup. The helmet should then be devoid of any shiny metal part, except for the eagle plate.
 
What are your opinions on the Wappen? It is affixed by way of split pins, is this correct? The ones I've seen (which is not all that many) had regimental Wappen and not the Imperial.

I believe the 1905 helmets did have spines to cover the seam in the felt. http://www.kaisersbunker.com/dunkelblau/helmets/dbh71.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

A little more checking appears that the helmets made for the East Asian Occupation Brigade had the removable spike, Imperial Wappen, and no spine. While those issued to regular army units sent out to China had the elongated vents and spine, along with their own regimental Wappen. This is only in my opinion. It is possible that combinations of these parts may have been used either way.
http://s400910952.websitehome.co.uk/germancolonialuniforms/militaria/pickelhaube%20east%20asian.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As to way covering them in felt, it appears it was done to reduce the need for a cover in the field.
 
aicusv said:
What are your opinions on the Wappen? It is affixed by way of split pins, is this correct? The ones I've seen (which is not all that many) had regimental Wappen and not the Imperial.

I believe the 1905 helmets did have spines to cover the seam in the felt. http://www.kaisersbunker.com/dunkelblau/helmets/dbh71.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

A little more checking appears that the helmets made for the East Asian Occupation Brigade had the removable spike, Imperial Wappen, and no spine. While those issued to regular army units sent out to China had the elongated vents and spine, along with their own regimental Wappen. This is only in my opinion. It is possible that combinations of these parts may have been used either way.
http://s400910952.websitehome.co.uk/germancolonialuniforms/militaria/pickelhaube%20east%20asian.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As to way covering them in felt, it appears it was done to reduce the need for a cover in the field.
Click to expand...

On these models, the imperial plate was attached by two sliders that fit into mounts affixed on the shell, just like on 1867 models (http://www.kaisersbunker.com/pe/m1867.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
The 1905 "trial" models had all characteristics of 95' helmets: rear spine with aerator, metal rim lining the front visor, front plate attached via metal loops... the only difference was the felt covering.
I am not aware that regular helmets with elongated vents were also used in China, which does not mean it did not happen...
 
A thorough, illustrated, discussion of the East Asian helmet can be found on pages 484 through 495 of The German Colonial Troops from 1889 to 1918 by Kraus & Muller. The text makes no mention of variations of the Model 1900 East Asian Expeditionary Corps helmet having elongated vent holes in the spike base or rear spines on the helmet body.
 
It looks like a fairly East Asian 1900 standard to me at first glance. I have seen one with the elongated spike holes for ventilation before... or perhaps I saw this one before?

Cheers
Chris
 
911car said:
I am not aware that regular helmets with elongated vents were also used in China, which does not mean it did not happen...
Click to expand...
By regular - I meant regular army units not regular helmets. Johnson in his book shows a group of helmets (felt covered and painted visors) all with the elongated vents, but with line Wappen - Prussia, Baden, Württemberg, and Brunswick (IR 92). These helmets all have black leather chin straps. Sorry if I have caused any confusion.
 
aicusv said:
911car said:
I am not aware that regular helmets with elongated vents were also used in China, which does not mean it did not happen...
Click to expand...
By regular - I meant regular army units not regular helmets. Johnson in his book shows a group of helmets (felt covered and painted visors) all with the elongated vents, but with line Wappen - Prussia, Baden, Württemberg, and Brunswick (IR 92). These helmets all have black leather chin straps. Sorry if I have caused any confusion.
Click to expand...

This is interesting. There are very nice examples of the BAO helmet in Juergen Kraus' book (pp 18,19) but surprisingly the one presented with its spike has regular, not elongated vents...
I have never heard that other states but Prussia contributed to the East Asia Occupation brigade. There is at Fort de la Pompelle a typical BAO helmet, with elongated vents but a Wuertemberg plate. However Larcade, who describes it in his book, says that the plate does not belong to the helmet. Since the Asian brigade disappeared in 1909, perhaps their helmets were re-used in other formations after changing the plate... We obviously still have a lot to learn here!
In the same vein, there was at the last Kube auction an amazing Husaren "Pelz"muetze (in fact covered with a yellowish material, not fur) marked to 1 ORR 1 Esk 1901 BAO
for 1 Ostasiatisches Reiter Regiment...
Bruno
 
I tried to find a list of German troops sent to China in 1900, but no luck. Anyone have an OoB for the German force?
 
Not so easy for an OB. these guys not only went but then hung around as an occupation brigade. I have the history here somewhere and I will try to find the initial increment. If I can find the book! This comes from Chris's website: http://s400910952.websitehome.co.uk/germancolonialuniforms/militaria/pickelhaube%20east%20asian.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The spiked helmet ("Pickelhaube") is famously associated with soldiers of the German imperial era, yet is was very rarely worn by colonial and overseas troops. One exception is the East Asian Expeditionary Corps and the following Occupation Brigade. The East Asian Expeditionary Corps were sent to China in 1900 with their standard home issue 1895 Pickelhauben. These were made of black leather, with variations on the helmet plate and cockades for the different German states and further variations in the style of spike, peak, chinscales and the type metal used for them with different ranks and arms of service. It was issued with a reed green cover to be used in action.

On 9th February 1901 new uniforms in field grey were authorised for the East Asian Expeditionary Corps (and its later successors, the East Asian Occupation Brigade and East Asian Detachment). These uniforms are usually referred to as the 1900 uniforms as parts of them and their design had been authorised or introduced by the Prussian war ministry between September and December of 1900. These uniforms included a new universal Pickelhaube. For the German Army Headquarters in Berlin this was a chance to run a trial on a design that might be more suited to modern warfare in a future European conflict than the old shiny black Pickelhaube.The new helmet varied from the previous army Pickelhauben in several ways. Rather than being made of blackened leather the 1900 helmet was made of field grey pressed felt. This was cheaper to produce and offered more of a camouflage appearance than the earlier Pickelhaube.

The front and rear peaks were made of green leather. The peaks did not have metal edging. Unlike the leather Pickelhaube the felt helmet had no rear spine.

The spike was of yellow metal with a rounded base. Officers helmets were not distinguished by fluted spikes or cruciform bases but did have a "pearl ring" around the base of the spike. The spike was intended to be removed in action and replaced with a small round grey metal cap that screwed in its place. When not in use the metal cap could be screwed to the underside of the helmet.

As the new East Asian Occupation Brigade was an imperial unit rather than one nominally individual state authority as the Expeditionary Corps had been, the new helmet had only imperial insignia. This insignia took the form of an imperial eagle with downswept wings in yellow metal, which was intended to be removed in action.

The helmet had an imperial cockade under the right hand chinstrap boss and no cockade at all on the left side where the state cockade had previously been displayed.

The chinstrap for other ranks was of usually grey green leather with two yellow metal buckles to adjust its length. Some surviving examples have natural brown leather chinstraps. Officers and senior NCOs had yellow metal chinscales on parade. As with most uniform items, officers usually purchased privately made Pickelhauben with better quality materials.

There were a few distinctions for arms of service. The artillery wore a helmet with a ball instead of a spike ("Kugelhelm").

The pioneers and staff officers had a white metal spike, eagle and chinscales (see below for Arm of Service variations).

The Jager-zu-Pferd wore a hunting horn below the imperial eagle on their helmets.

The East Asian Jäger (disbanded in 1901) and Train units wore a similar grey felt shako with the same eagle and Imperial cockades as the East Asian Pickelhaube with an oval imperial cockade on the front.

Helmet covers were not worn with the 1900 helmet. With the the spike and imperial eagle removed for action, the helmet had a plain low profile field grey appearance without the need for a cover.
Click to expand...
 
This one is indeed familiar... It was sold sometime ago by the Collector's Guild.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NAMED-GERMAN-EAST-ASIA-EXPEDITIONARY-CORPS-TSHAKO-CNINA-WW1-/111534393900?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item19f7f7ca2c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
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