Experimental M18 Stalhelm variation

J

JPS

New member
Yo Gents,

I was very lucky to find this beautiful example of the German late war experimental helmet. I am familiar with the photo and mention that this M18 variation receives in Marzetti's book.

I was told that there is some mention of these in Baer's book as well, but could not find anything in my English copy? Is it possible that this variation is mentioned in the German language edition of Baer's book?

Are there different editions of Baer's book per chance? I am trying to find out as much as possible about these unusual helmets.

Thank you in advance for any help you Gentlemen might be able to provide.

Warmest regards,

JPS PS - Now how do I post a photo? Help please!
 
JPS,

I think I bought some bayonets from you.

To post a picture, go to a hosting site such as www.photobucket.com, load your photos on the site, then copy the direct link shortcut and paste it into your postings on pickehaubes.com. The photos will then load automatically.

Mike
 
Thank you for your help Mike!

I tried photobucket but it appears to be blocked here in China? I'll have to try again tonight and if that doesn't work, when I get home from this business trip. In the iterim, if you want to peek at the photos, I posted them on the WWI Forum at Gunboards.com, which is the url address I listed above.

It's not likely that you bought any bayonets from me as I rarely sell anything from my collection? Any idea on the time frame or what bayonets you are referring to?

Thank you again for your help! I'll try photobucket again later tonight when the traffic on the internet is lower.

Warmest regards,

JPS
 
JPS,

Sorry, it was Seitengewehr98 that I bought the bayonets from. Here is another photo hosting site, works the same way but you can only load one at a time (3 at a time in photobucket)


http://www.imageshack.us/
 
Try this link
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/uploaded/JPS/2007610225024_German%20M18%20w%20Reinforcing%20Plate%201.jpg

and here is a thread on the topic on gunboards
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=231426

and even better yet, here is a photo

jpsiz0.jpg

Gus
 
Thanks for bailing me out Gus!

I'm still trying to get the hang of this format? I am still "computer challenged" from time to time!

I'll still go a head and try the other photo upload site that flashheart posted.

Warmest regards,

JPS
 
Yo Gents,

Okay, I managed to get a photo uploaded on imageshack...............now what?

How do I link it to this thread?

JPS
 
JPS

I have Baer's book, 1st edition, copyrighted 1985. I could find no reference of this helmet.

Have you tried this site? German Helmet Walhalla:

http://zline.eu/forum/
 
JPS, click on the reply buton. You will then see a series of boxes up at the top of the message box. Click IMG (second from the right) next paste the url from your picture host then hit IMG again to close at the end of the url. Then go to preview to see how things look and post. Brian
 
Looking at the Gus pic I can see the difference between this and the usual helme but why the change/modification??. I saw a very interesting doc on the Somme battle. They were looking into such things as why the Germans were able to withstand the initial barrage that the Brits laid on. One of the explanations was the superb construction technique invlolved in producing the stahlhelm. It took 3-4 partial presssings to form the bowl of the helmet in order to maintain an adequate thickness on top. Brian
 
Hey Brian,
I believe tha additional thickness on this helmet was more a psychological modifacation, as it would still not stop small arms fire, although it would be mofe affective against schrapnel. An extra thinckness of steel would put a little more feelinig of safety into the wearer.
Gus
 
Yo b.loree & Company,

Thank you for the help with posting photos! Look's like your excellent instructions combined with a little Irish trial and error actually worked! Voila! A photo appears!

Here are the rest of the auction photos that show additional detail. Aside from the photo in Marzetti, one of our German contributors on the other Forum seemed to think there was some mention of it in Baer? That's why I wondered if it was covered in a later edition than the one I have or perhaps in the German language version of Baer's work?

The rivet pattern and locations are absolutely identical to the example shown in Marzetti. I agree with Gus in that I seriously doubt that this additional plate would stop a bullet other than at extremely long range.

Perhaps it was an attempt to replace the extremely unpopular stirnpanzers? The camo paint on this example is original and per the regulations issued along with the supply of paint for application of camo, complete with the finger width black separation lines.

The makeshift liner is quite interesting as well since the stitching indicates that the liner was put together from separate sections of two different standard liners. The area in between pads has been filled in with extra sections of leather, no doubt to help support the additional weight of the helmet while retaining a degree of comfort.

It's a very unusual piece and is without question, in my opinion, a WWI helmet. Beyond that, it appears that these are few and far between and not much else is known about them? I'll probably try and get a letter and some photos to Marzetti to see what, if any, additional information he might have?

I'll respond individually to the other posts in this thread. Thank you one and all for chiming in!

Warmest regards,

JPS



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Yo Wyliecoyote,

Thanks for the link. I'm not familiar with that site, but will check it out and see what I can come up with. If I come across any additional information, I'll post it here for anyone who's interested.

Other than the photo in Marzetti, this is the only other example I have ever seen?

Thank you!

JPS
 
b.loree said:
Looking at the Gus pic I can see the difference between this and the usual helme but why the change/modification??. I saw a very interesting doc on the Somme battle. They were looking into such things as why the Germans were able to withstand the initial barrage that the Brits laid on. One of the explanations was the superb construction technique invlolved in producing the stahlhelm. It took 3-4 partial presssings to form the bowl of the helmet in order to maintain an adequate thickness on top. Brian
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Hello Brian,

It's quite interesting in that this was no makeshift alteration as the reinforcing plate fits the contour of the original helmet perfectly. This would most certainly have to have been produced by an accomplished stamping/forging company such as those that produced the stalhelms for the German Army. Why they went to this much trouble? Who knows! With so few existing examples, if there are no records, we will probably NEVER know why these modifications were introduced?

Regarding the Somme, if you are not familiar with it, read the section on the Somme in John Keegan's landmark work, "The Face of Battle". It's pretty obvious based on his research combined with accounts of the battle from the German side that the primary reason that the British bombardment had so little effect is due to the fact that the preponderance of British guns were light field artillery that lacked the power to inflict any damage to dugout that were concrete reinforced and 30 to 40 feet underground. There were simply not enough heavy guns available that were capable of dealing with the deep dugouts and even then, they pretty much had to score a direct hit to do any damage.

During the actual initial attack, British troops reported in many areas of the front that in spite of the prolonged bombardment, much of the German wire remained uncut!

With all of that said, there is no question what so ever that the German stalhelm was the finest helmet of the war in terms of design, manufacture and protection.

Pick up a copy of "The Face of Battle" if you get a chance. It's a fantastic book.

Warmest regards,

JPS
 
Good morning all,

Here is a post from a similar thread regarding this helmet that I have posted on the WWI Forum. The contributor goes by the name WaPrüf2. He is an advanced collector of Mausers and has a lot of expertise when it comes to most anything from Imperial Germany. I know that Gus and some of the other members here know WaPrüf2 from Gunboards. Here is his post and my response.

________________________________________________________________________

WaPrüf2

See Baer, German ed. 1992/93, Bd.1, p. 104, for a match. Accompanying text: "Since the reunification [of Germany] a number of steel helmets M18 have surfaced which have an auxiliary "armor plate" riveted to the front. Here also the purpose is unknown." (my translation).

I have also seen something similar where the plate is rectangular and does not extend out onto the visor.
________________________________________________________________________


Thank you WaPrüf2,

It must have been you that mentioned something in the original thread about this helmet! I have a 1st edition copy of Baer, I believe it's copyrighted 1985 that makes no mention of this helmet. This example came out of an estate on the East Coast of the US and obviously did not surface in East Germany.

With the late war regulation camo, there is little doubt that it is WWI vintage. I have also seen the other type of plate reinforcement that you mention that is rectangular in shape and applied only above the transitional curve from the obverse of the crown into the visor.

They are just as scarce as these examples. They would have been much less expensive and much faster to produce. The forming of the plate on my helmet follows the contour so perfectly that it would have had to have been produced with forging/stamping dies at a regular manufacturing facility that also produced helmets.

Thank you again for taking the time to comment. I appreciate the info and will post it, with credit and your permission of course, on the other two Forums where I have been trying to find additional information about this helmet. Please let me know if I have your permission to do so.

Warmest regards,

JPS
________________________________________________________________________

It was undoubtedly WaPrüf2's input regarding Baer's comments about this variation when I first acquired this helmet.

I'll add more if anything develops in any of the other threads. I am going to try and contact Marzetti through one of the dealers I buy from in Italy who apparently knows him.

I’ll let you know if I find out any additional information regarding this helmet. Have a great weekend.

Warmest regards,

JPS
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