pointystuff
Active member
b.loree said:
I lucked into a shoe repair shop equipped with a 1920s German sewing machine; the cobbler inherited it from his grandfather.
What size thread would be best for installing a liner in a felt Pickelhaube?
Fixin Yer Leather Hat
- Thread starter b.loree
- Start date
I lucked into a shoe repair shop equipped with a 1920s German sewing machine; the cobbler inherited it from his grandfather.
What size thread would be best for installing a liner in a felt Pickelhaube?
Good luck on the machine, I hope it is one where the "foot" stitches underneath. I have never seen original machines but their tracks are always left on the underside of the shell. That is how they stitched without damaging the surface finish. All visors were pre finished and then stitched on to the shell. Any modern machine will crack the finish along the stitch holes. I know because in my early days I had a local shoe repair guy stitch one for me, this is why I have to do it by hand.
I can not give you a specific thread thickness for a filz helme. It certainly is thinner than that used on a leather helmet. I would use a beige/natural coloured linen not cotton. I have done one filz helme liner years ago....not easy, have fun!
I can not give you a specific thread thickness for a filz helme. It certainly is thinner than that used on a leather helmet. I would use a beige/natural coloured linen not cotton. I have done one filz helme liner years ago....not easy, have fun!
pointystuff
Active member
Ahhh...I'm on the right track. Thanks.
Did you put a leather band behind the tongued liner when you repaired that felt Pickelhaube?
Did you put a leather band behind the tongued liner when you repaired that felt Pickelhaube?
pointystuff
Active member
There was one on eBay this week that had a leather band stitched into it; the tongued liner, though, was long gone.
I saw that and learned something new as I had never seen that before on a filz helme. There is nothing "standard" on these helmets, there is the usual and then something like that comes along and then boom, you get smacked up side the head! If you are serious about making this filz helme liner project Ron PM me and I will gladly help out with some tips.
b.loree said:
I have used black linen thread, waxed as Brian advises, on the 4 x restorations I have done and they have worked out great. Heavy gauge linen thread on the older helmets (1 x M1857 and 2 x M1860), and fine linen thread on the M1895 officers helmet.
The good thing about linen is that it is very strong and difficult to break. Cotton or other thread can get fragile after pulling it through 50 or 60 pre-drilled holes!
aicusv
Well-known member
flasheart said:
After many years of collecting I decided to try restitching my first set of visors. I'm using cotton thread and have had it break a couple of times. I'm only doing a couple of stitches a day. It has been about a month and I have the rear visor on and half way through with the front. The helmet I picked is an enlisted man's M'15, that was in with a collections of parts I picked up.
One thing I've noticed is for each hole in the body of the helmet there are two in each visor. These are the visors from the helmet. The stitches form a "W" type pattern, with each stitch passing through each hole twice.
Example; Out of the hole on the helmet, through the hole on the visor, over to the next visor hole, and back though the same hole in helmet that you came out. Then over to the next helmet hole, out it and the through the same hole in the visor you just passed back in through. Repeat. Is this common?
aicusv said:
That doesnt sound right. Should be a set of holes on the visor that align exactly with a set of holes on the helmet body. I suspect that the holes have moved out of alignment. To do this properly, you need to clean out all the holes with a very fine drill bit or similar, then pin the visor to the helmet body through all or almost all of the holes to ensure they are lined up. Only then do you begin to sew, all the way from one end to the other, removing the pins as you go. Then reverse direction and sew all the way back to the other end through the same holes, but the stitches now fill in the blank spaces. The visual effect is the same as a sewing machine stitch.
Yes something is definitely wrong here. Flash has described how things should be. All holes must be cleaned out of old thread. I use a hand held pin vice available off Ebay with very fine drill bits. Use small small T shaped pins (used by people who make quilts), there are lots of pictures showing these in my restoration posts.
To pin correctly and line up the holes you have to count the holes on the outside insert the pin and then flip the helmet over, look inside and count the holes on the inside. To start, I usually go 4 holes in from the tip of the visor, I line up to the fourth hole in the shell, then insert the pin half way. I want a space between visor and shell so I can count both visor holes and shell holes. Next count across 10 holes in visor, 10 in the shell and insert the pin. You should be able to repeat 3-4 times ie 3-4 pins before you have to push all pins into the shell because the visor is flopping around. Now you count holes on the outside as usual but you have to flip the helmet (liner pulled out) and count holes from the inside of the shell. I use one of those magnifier lights when I do this indoors. However, the best light is natural sunlight, you can turn the helmet so as you actually focus that light on the inside stitch line when you count. Other....hints: Before cutting the visor off to stitch, take a pencil and draw lines on the shell across the hole. This will give you a series of marks along shell and visor to help line things up. Second, there are always lines in the finish made by the rear spine both on visor and shell. You can line these up and actually start pinning from the middle of the visor. Third, and specific to the rear visor, the tips of the visor are stitched with a loop of thread so there is one hole, the very first one which is below the rest of the stitch line and close to the shell rim. This is where you start, push your needle up through this hole from inside, then into the second hole which is actually in the stitch line. Do this twice creating a loop of thread and then start stitching across. Fourth....breaking thread...you must use beeswax to coat the thread and you must do this multiple times as you go across the visor. Also you must move your needle (change position) along the thread as you stitch. Stitching (friction) causes wear in the thread where the needle is located. If you don't shift the needle, it wears through and breaks.
Regarding thread, the most easily found and the closest to original thread is the linen book binding type. You can buy it online in various thicknesses. You can not buy thread today of proper thickness that does not have man made fibres in it which will "light up". I use vintage cotton thread from the 1940's and 50's when you could still buy thick cotton thread. You can still buy 100% cotton thread today but it is too thin and only suitable for stitching cloth. You can use it for officer liners. Good luck.
To pin correctly and line up the holes you have to count the holes on the outside insert the pin and then flip the helmet over, look inside and count the holes on the inside. To start, I usually go 4 holes in from the tip of the visor, I line up to the fourth hole in the shell, then insert the pin half way. I want a space between visor and shell so I can count both visor holes and shell holes. Next count across 10 holes in visor, 10 in the shell and insert the pin. You should be able to repeat 3-4 times ie 3-4 pins before you have to push all pins into the shell because the visor is flopping around. Now you count holes on the outside as usual but you have to flip the helmet (liner pulled out) and count holes from the inside of the shell. I use one of those magnifier lights when I do this indoors. However, the best light is natural sunlight, you can turn the helmet so as you actually focus that light on the inside stitch line when you count. Other....hints: Before cutting the visor off to stitch, take a pencil and draw lines on the shell across the hole. This will give you a series of marks along shell and visor to help line things up. Second, there are always lines in the finish made by the rear spine both on visor and shell. You can line these up and actually start pinning from the middle of the visor. Third, and specific to the rear visor, the tips of the visor are stitched with a loop of thread so there is one hole, the very first one which is below the rest of the stitch line and close to the shell rim. This is where you start, push your needle up through this hole from inside, then into the second hole which is actually in the stitch line. Do this twice creating a loop of thread and then start stitching across. Fourth....breaking thread...you must use beeswax to coat the thread and you must do this multiple times as you go across the visor. Also you must move your needle (change position) along the thread as you stitch. Stitching (friction) causes wear in the thread where the needle is located. If you don't shift the needle, it wears through and breaks.
Regarding thread, the most easily found and the closest to original thread is the linen book binding type. You can buy it online in various thicknesses. You can not buy thread today of proper thickness that does not have man made fibres in it which will "light up". I use vintage cotton thread from the 1940's and 50's when you could still buy thick cotton thread. You can still buy 100% cotton thread today but it is too thin and only suitable for stitching cloth. You can use it for officer liners. Good luck.