garde Kurrasier

K

Ken N

New member
hello Everybody:

I have only just now discovered this forum. I've been an active collector of Imperial and TR helmets for many years but have only today been directed here by a friend.
I just recently picked up this Guard Kurrasier helmet. Please click on the URL. I am still trying to figure out how to post photos directly.

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/GK1.jpg

The helmet was found relatively recently at an estate sale. But it is missing the eagles crown. Does anybody have a clue as to where an original or a reasonable reproduction may be found?
 
Hi Ken,

First off, thank you, Joe, for the support.

Ken I may be able to help you with a repro crown for your helmet in 6 to 8 weeks.

Were I in your shoes, my big concern would be to do absolutely nothing to a fine helmet like yours to modify it or otherwise tamper with its original condition. Which means we would need to modify the repro crown.

I am hoping that others will chime in with ideas, here, because this is new ground for me.

My concern is that the crown has a metal bolt for fixing it to the eagle's head. I would not want the crown's bolt cross-threading the female threads of the eagle.

What I would propose to do would be to cut the metal bolt off of the repro crown and replace it with a nylon bolt. The nylon bolt would need to be a big enough gauge to fit tightly into the female threading of the eagle head. That way, when you do screw the nylon bolt into the eagle's head, the female threading will cut new threads in the bolt without harming the female threading.

Come to think of it, you probably want to buy a handful of nylon bolts and very carefully screw them into the eagle's head. Then, take the best one and epoxy it to the base of the repro crown.

Now, you have a functional crown. I wouldn't mess with it too much, though, because I expect that the metal threading of the eagle's head will chew up the nylon bolt after only a few "ins and outs."

If you like, drop me a line at:

[email protected]

Cheers,

Laurie
 
Here is a close up of the top of the eagles head. It appears that there is a male fitting rather than a female fitting. But I am sure that a repro crown could still be modified to fit.

 
here is the only other concern that I have. Somebody at some point had attampted a fix on the wearers right chinscale. I will do some work to correct this but other than the crown, I intend to leave this thing as "untouched" as possible. By the way, the leather liner is in pretty nice sahpe. I just didn't get a pic of it yet.

 
Hi Ken:

Believe it or not, a staple gun might be the best remedy for the scales. Also, the large stud connecting the scales looks like a replacement.

Joe made a good observation regarding the Kokarde, I think it is the wrong style/diameter for the helmet.

Minor problems notwithstanding, boy is that a keeper.

Congratulations!

Chas.
 
Hi Ken,
Welcome to the Forum. It looks to me that the bolt is still in the head of the eagle and the crown has broken off. Can you carefully unscrew it?? Bill
 
Ken,
Second thought..... Use penetrating oil and give the oil time to work. Very light pressure!!!! Can you see the threaded bolt when looking through the eagles eyes/mouth? Bill
 
Ken: I second Bill's comments on removing the stud. The eagle is made up of many pieces of thin sheet metal soldered together and the solder joints are quite fragile. Take it slow and easy. A little TLC will turn that helmet into a very nice piece. When you get around to removing the chinscales & kokardes I would be interested to know if there is a unit mark under the right kokarde.

Reservist1
 
Hi Ken,
A great helmet!
I love untouched metal helmets liker yours, they have "character".
Otto

PS. Great shots!
 
Hi Ken,

Sorry for the histrionics in my subject line, but I wanted to get your attention.

Please, go very, very slowly. I agree with reservist1, these birds are very fragile. If you try to wrench that bolt off before it is ready you could wring your chicken's neck.

Kaiser Bill is right, you want to use a good penetrating oil. I would be inclined to apply a few drops and leave it overnight. Now, here's the important part: Swab the area dry with a cotton bud, then apply a few more drops.

Why all this bother? If you leave the old oil on and then apply more oil, it will just pool and run off. If you swab it dry, the new oil has to 'find its gravity' again and will seek out any remaining open spaces in the threading.

I would do the oiling 3 or 4 times.

Next, if you can, avoid using pliers. You want the most positive grip on the head of the bolt that you can get, but pliers have a nasty habit of slipping and scratching pieces. Worst case, use a set of channel lock pliers that are set as exactly as possible to match the head of the bolt.

Here's the fun part: First of all give the bolt a firm but tiny twist to tighten it slightly (counterclockwise) - This is to help break the seal, but remember: A really tiny twist to the left.

Then, with a slow even pressure, try unscrewing the bolt to the right. The deal, here, is to make the pressure gentle but firm. However, don't force it.

Remember that the chicken's neck is delicate so try and support it as best you can against the torque of the unscrewing.

Now, to the chinscales: Charles shame on you! Talk about swatting a gnat with a sledgehammer! Skip the staple gun, please!

First off, get some leather conditioner like Lexol and really soften up the old leather backing, lining and strap so that they are pliable again.

You may find that the backing/lining is the same piece of leather, just folded over the strap.

From your photos, it looks like the chinscales were originally put together with heavy thread or a fine braided wire. Were it me, I would do my best to duplicate the old method.

I think that you will find that the old chinscale plates are drilled and the thread or wire passes through those holes to attach them to the leather backing.

The Lexol, leather needles and appropriate thread can be had at a horse saddlery shop.

I think Charles is right, though, about the button where the two sides of the chinscales join. Please post a closer picture of it if you can.

Well, good luck, and keep us posted.

Cheers,

Laurie

ps. Joe is right about the cockades, they look like officer's cockades and you want enlisted man's. I can help you, there. L.
 
Thanks for the tips everybody.

As for the Stud from the old crown remaining in the bird's head, rather than remove it, I have a mind to wait until such time as I get a crown, either original (which I know is not likely) or a quality repro. Then I would see if it might not be possible to remove the stud from this crown and apply the crown to the stud protruding from the head. I think there would be a lot less chance of screwing something up. What do you think?

As for the cockades, yes, I agree that they are not the correct ones. It seems a shame to replace them in any case as it is evident that they have been with the helmet since ever. I'll have to think on that one.

The chinscales will actually be the least of my problems ( I hope). I have 'rebuilt" a couple of sets in my time. One of these days soon, I will sit down and dismantle the scales and see what I have under there. I'll be sure to take pics if I find a unit marking. Interestingly, there is a marking on the very end of the tail across the back "G.K.R. 3 E".

Laurie: I have just read your e-mail. I will definately go for a repro nickel silver crown as soon as you can supply one. Many thanks for all your help and suggestions in this matter.

I thought I would include a URL to a page of my website that has some of my Imperial helmets pictured on it. here it is: http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/gallery_ww1.html

I haven't looked throigh this forum extensively enough. Does anybody else have a similar GK helmet? photos?
 
Ken: Laurie has given you some very good suggestions. If you have trouble getting a grip on the remains of the bolt, the following will work if you have some experience using small hand tools. From your closeup of the eagle's head, the joint between the bolt and what is probably a square nut soldered flush with the top of the birds head is very clear. The material above that joint gives you some working room.

1. punch a hole just slightly larger than the diameter of the stud in a piece of masking tape an put the tape over the stud. Repeat this with 2 or 3 layers of tape to protect the bird's head. 2. Take a jewlers saw and very, very, carefully and slowly saw a slot across the top of the stud. Only cut about 1/2 the distance from ther top of the stud to the joint at the bird's head. Be sure to keep the saw parallel with the top of the stud as you cut. If you tip the blade forward or backwards you risk nicking the edge of the bird with the saw. 3. After you have sawed a narrow slot take a small swiss screw slot file and widen the saw cut to accept a screwdriver. 4. Modify a screwdriver by hollow grinding the tip(make sides of screwdriver blade parallel) to exactly fit the slot you made. You can now use the screwdriver to apply very gentle pressure to remove the stud. You want to support the eagle's neck and head with one hand as you very gently apply pressure with the screwdriver. This will keep the torque in the area of the stud.

If you are at all uncomfortable with any of the above or not familiar with the tools I mentioned, do not try it. However, it will work because I have been there and done that. Should you decide to try this method practice on a couple of bolts before you tackle the eagle. The key to fixing the eagle, by which ever method you choose, is patience and caution. If you find yourself getting frustrated or in a hurry just put it down and come back later. If you try to hurry you run the risk of ruining something nice, I've been there done that too.

Good luck,

Reservist1
 
To Reservist1:

What an Ace technique! My compliments!

I am adding that slot and screwdriver trick to my repertoire. Thank you.

Cheers,

Laurie
 
epsomgreen said:
Believe it or not, a staple gun might be the best remedy for the scales.
Click to expand...

kaiserzeit said:
Now, to the chinscales: Charles shame on you! Talk about swatting a gnat with a sledgehammer! Skip the staple gun, please!
Click to expand...

I believe Chas was referring to the staples, not hammering the scales with a staple gun which would not work. The backs of most Preußen made chinscales has two holes in them which allowed a staple to pierce through the scale and the leather backing. I think the idea is a sound one and exactly what I would do but it was misinterpreted. The only scales I have seen that were sewn, were pre 1868 Bayern Raupenhelme and Sachsen M1867 Reiter Helme scales.

Ken, very nice M1889 example you have there. Joe, nice helmet too!
 
Ah Ha! Vindicated at last!

Yes, my thinking was that staples of the correct length applied manually would come closest to matching the original construction materials. How Ken might do this is another can or worms.

Thank you Tony. You read me like a book.

Chas. :lol:
 
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