Garde Landwehr pickelhaube

B

blaeu

New member
Two weeks ago I bought on an large european militaria auction this Pickelhaube. It is marked with 1.G.R.z.F. 1st Garde regiment zu Fuss.
Since these two weeks I am looking on the internet for information. This is why I found this forum.

As far as I know is this an enlisted men's pickelhaube. Garde ersatz or landwehr. Is there a difference?
The eagle, the point and the star are made in white metal. Does it mean that it is from a pioneer?
The cross is beatiful sunken in the star.
Can someone tell me more about my helmet.

Here are the pictures (I hope it will work).

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Thanks for helping.

Greetings from Holland
 
Greetings Jurgen:

What you have is a beautiful 1. Garde-Landwehr-Regiment zu Fuß other ranks helmet. This regiment wore silver Beschläge on their Pickelhauben and Mitres. 1.G.R.z.F. was an infantry regiment.

The Reserve troops helmet would feature the standard Garde Star with a smaller cross in gold. As an example, this is an reserve officer helmet for Garde-Füsilier-Regiment/5. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß

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This is an enlisted Garde Pionier helmet:

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Congratulations on your stunning prize and welcome to the forum.

Chas
 
Im new here and I know im responding to a super old post here but I couldn't find much info on a helmet that i just got til' i found your pics. looks like i have a similar helmet but mine has a ribbon on the eagle. its hard finding clear information on this style of helmet. thanks for posting it in the first place!!!





 
Wow! - another nice one of these babies! Very COOL!!

Is it marked inside with stamps of any kind - interior shots please!

Technically as it's Reserve/Landwhere it should not have the ribbon/bandeau but they did not always adhere to this, especially in the case of Officers. I might be wrong on this but.......it's a nice piece anyway - don't clean it too much if at all!
 
Welcome to the forum! Lots and lots of research here. Mikey asked the important question about the interior. I have an officer one of these but the enlisted version leaves a whole lot of questions. Love to see more pictures of any markings and how the helmet plate is attached. I have a good picture of this in use on the way and will post it when it arrives.
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A word of caution about enlisted helmets. Often you will be advised that these are Landwehr helmets. While that could be true it is more likely to be a reserve helmet. Similar to line Prussian helmets there was no specific reserve helmet for the Guard Corps. Therefore, it seems as though the eagle wappen shown above was used in its enlisted form for both reserve units and Landwehr units. This creates even more confusion because guard units of the Landwehr never deployed. As some collectors know the reserve regiments were supplied directly by the active regiment that supported them. Landwehr units came from the Bezirkskomando. The active regiment was supposed to provide a certain number of helmets for the reserve unit. I do not yet know how many. Nor do I know if it was actually done. It seems as in some cases, it was. For the guard regiments there seems to be strong evidence that the Guard Field Artillery and 1GRzF certainly kept stockpiles for reserve units in the form of enlisted helmets with Guard Landwehr wappen. Helmets with Landwehr wappen are known to have had both active and reserve Kammer marks at the same time (left below). Therefore the key item for absolute identification will be a mark for a second unit. Were these used for Übungen prior to the war? Yes! The group below with the Landwehr wappen is a reserve group, dated October 1911.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Weird..welcome to the forum. I saw this helmet up for sale on Ebay....very nice and congratulations. I have not seen more than 3 of these for sale in my 15+ years of collecting. As was mentioned, technically there shold be no motto on the bird becase this is present on the cross. However, if there is one hard and fast rule about the German army from this period, it is that they were very practical and salvaged/reused whenever possible so not to worry. Why worry about changing an entire bird when you can take off the old Garde star and stick on a reservist one?
 
first pic is very hard to read but i think i figured it out, it reads "B.A. VIII 1914" which i found is Armee-Korps (Coblenz).



this pic is a shot of the inside which reads "helm Becker & Co" and "Elberfeld" with "1914" on the bottom and "55" for the size.



last pic is a shot of the inside of the helmet

 
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Thanks for posting the markings -- that is not the BA I would suspect. That helmet is no doubt original and well marked but something is screwy between the Wappen and that Mark.

The picture I posted has a date of 1908. There is nothing on the back. Apparently these guys existed Full-time in peacetime or at least part-time Which was different than the other corps, but I don't know any of the details -- maybe Glenn does. They never did deploy.

I would ask you to allow us to put your makers Mark on our list. We have a BECKER but nothing like this and it is so clear!
http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Helmet_Makers.htm
 
Thanks Joe for helping out! You think the helmet may be put together with a miss-matched Wappen? Everything looks original and i still love the helmet but im just trying to understand its origins. Thanks for all your help!
 
Helmet looks like it all fits. There are not enough pictures to tell but I would remove the front plate and take pictures of the back of the Wappen. It is possible that the mounting hardware has been moved. It should say BAG or KBAG.
Many helmets that were taken to America came out of a storehouse in Koblenz. It is possible that the Wappen was applied to this shell shortly after the end of the war. Lots of possibilities.

May I put your marking on the list?
 
Hey Chris,
2 years after I saw this thread and particularly the markings on your helmet (BA VIII 1914).
I assume this is not a Garde Landwehr Pickelhaube but a ER2 or ER3 helmet wich has been worn by a reservist in one of this 2 Eisenbahn Regimenter.
In Larcade, first book, page 154 is mentioned that before the war, the ER2 and ER3 were depending from the BA VIII, because the XVIII Armee-Korps did not have a Bekleidungsamt in peace time.
Great helmet, like the one you sold for a few days on ebay Germany, a M15 with Garde eagle of the ER2 and markings of the RBA 18.

Philippe :salute:
 
Philippe,

I think that is a good analysis. BEA VIII picked up a lot of slack. What I do not know is if there is some sort of direct relationship between these railroad battalions and the stockage of 1st GRzF???? this is a very good example however to stick in the old memory banks!
 
Joe, I don´t think that Chris ´s (weirdpyramid) helmet has something to do with the 1st GRzF !!!!
There is no such markings of this unit in his haube.... Only a Garde eagle wappen, which could have also been worn at the ER2, ER3, Garde Pionier, Fusilier Bataillon, 5th Garde Regiment zu Fuß and Kraftfahrbataillon. But the ER2 and the ER3 are the only units which were depending from the XVIII AK between late 1913 and beginning of war. And because this AK did not have a BA, the BA VIII made the job for those two small units in Hanau. Chris helmet is also dated from this period (1914).

Philippe
 
I was looking through the last peacetime Bekleidungsordnung from 1903 and thought it might be useful to summarise some of the details in regards to Reserve and Landwehr headgear. The regulations already provided for the equipping of units formed at or after mobilisation - Kriegsformationen and in peacetime, the training of reservists and Landwehr personnel carrying out their periodical training - Übungsmannschaften.

Under the general heading, it is stated that such items as plumes are not worn and in the case of Guards and Grenadier formations, the chinstrap replaces the chin scales. All Reserve, Landwehr and Landsturm formations wear as a common item of insignia the Landwehr Cross of white or yellow metal. Those Active soldiers assigned to these formations also wear the Landwehr Cross but conversely, soldiers of the Beurlaubtenstand (Reserve, Landwehr) serving with an Active unit do not. The scroll is not worn on helmet plates fitted with a Landwehr Cross. Men of the Beurlaubtenstand who in peacetime are detailed for their mandatory periodical training only wear the Landwehr Cross if they are assigned to special formations specifically formed for the purpose of the training, a Reservist doing his training with his former active unit would not wear the Landwehr Cross.

The regulations provided for the Reserve Regiments of the Guard Corps with the normal eagle but without a scroll and a Garde-Landwehr-Adler of Tombak or Neusilber. Although it does not go into too much detail, it also states that the sceptre, sword hilt and tail feathers of the the helmet plate of the Garde-Grenadier-Reserve Regiments differed somewhat. In any case, no such regiments were formed during the war as indeed were no Garde-Landwehr-Regiments.

Regards
Glenn
 
argonne said:
Joe, I don´t think that Chris ´s (weirdpyramid) helmet has something to do with the 1st GRzF !!!!
Click to expand...
joerookery said:
For the guard regiments there seems to be strong evidence that the Guard Field Artillery and 1GRzF certainly kept stockpiles for reserve units in the form of enlisted helmets with Guard Landwehr wappen.
Click to expand...

Sorry Joe, I did not read all details above... :wink:

Philippe
 
Hey Joe, Glenn and Philippe

Thanks for all that great info guys!

Its been a lonnnggg time since anyone has touched this specific thread but I more recently posted this same helmet(better pictures this time) with the same questions in another post. Check it out.....

http://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6389&hilit=+fittings+vs+markings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
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