GDC & Braunsweig

poniatowski

poniatowski

Well-known member
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pickelhaube-Casque-Spike-Helmet-GARDE-DU-CORPS-100-ORIGINAL-/271071794756?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1d235644" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd still like to see under the cockades. :)

Here's an interesting one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Braunsweig-PickelHaube-trooper-IR92-/330802606197?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d055f3075" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look at the '3D laurel' on the back of the skull, lower left. Am I wrong in thinking if you place a turkey in a flock of eagles, it's still a turkey?

:D Ron
 
Its always risky to buy these rare helmets from ebay. Although they look good to me at first sight, I would not be surprised if they contain several flaws. But perhaps I am wrong here :D

Regards,

Edwin
 
To me, the skull doesn't look stamped, but cast or formed. (because of the one rounded leaf on the reverse side) Also, posing it with a General's helmet, etc. is a bit of a gimmick to me, saying, "Look, these other helmets are great... so is this one." It always makes me suspicious.

:D Ron
 
The GDC is interesting but there are a couple things that bother me.

If its regiment stamped already on the lobster tail then what will you find under the kokarde? unless, it has a different stamp under the kokarde, then thats a problem.

The one thing that visually bothers me is that it looks like the underside of the lobster tail has been repainted black. As you can see, not a scratch on it, where compared with the rest of the inside it looks too new. Also the chin scales look like they have a different patina than the shell of the helmet.
 
weirdpyramid said:
The GDC is interesting but there are a couple things that bother me.

If its regiment stamped already on the lobster tail then what will you find under the kokarde? unless, it has a different stamp under the kokarde, then thats a problem.

The one thing that visually bothers me is that it looks like the underside of the lobster tail has been repainted black. As you can see, not a scratch on it, where compared with the rest of the inside it looks too new. Also the chin scales look like they have a different patina than the shell of the helmet.
Click to expand...

Also, I've a stamp set that I could make regimental markings with on the tail... anyway, I tried to contact the seller about under the cockades, but my computer just kept grinding away and wouldn't allow it... so I don't know if that's my computer at that time or what. I should try again.

:D Ron
 
This is an interesting thread in as much as it is giving the impression that all GdC helmets must have the regimental markings under the cockade. Also, casting doubt on originality if they are not.
So where does this place helmets with no regimental markings,,, perhaps in a queue for poniatowski's personal stamping provenance?
 
The question is if it's marked to the 6th Kuerassier's. Since I've been told that many of those were converted to GdC for the tourist market.
Helmets without markings? Private purchase, unissued, etc. I don't think that's the question here. And... if I needed to, I could fake almost any marking on any helmet with stamps or a sharpee marker, but I guess they'll have to queue elsewhere for that. Perhaps one of the people on ebay selling fakes with 100% customer ratings could give us some suggestions?

:D Ron
 
I think I see what you mean but It's highly unlikely somebody faking GdC markings onto 6th K is going to leave original 6th K marks or even GK markings under a cockade!...
I don't buy this "Tourist trade" explanation either. That's nonsense. I Would safely say that if a helmet was made up to look like a GdC but wasn't, it was because it was made up to look like a complete helmet,,,,ANY helmet! The tourist would'nt know the difference. and when these helmets were in great abundance there was not a great deal of interest in them anyway so at the time of this tourist trade, who would give a hoot if it was a GdC eagle on a JzP helmet.. or a 6th K or whatever... We've seen them on Pickelhauben so If they can be sold like that then who would be bothered finding 6th K helmets to convert to GdC helmets... not withstanding the fact that there would have to be the eagles available to place on these 6th K helmets..... which if left as they were would be surely as interesting to a "tourist" as any other helmet! Even today, the general tourist is still pretty uninterested in them.
 
"Braunsweig PickelHaube..."

I think I could not help but being cautious about a seller who makes such huge spelling mistakes in the keyword of the title of his ad!..
 
About the Gdc or GK
:-k Don’t know about the way the eagle is attached to the helmet with two extra holes who will
probably be visible when you switch back to the spike and I’m not sure this is a genuine eagle too.
Well …. I could be wrong….
I can only compare with mine which looks more refined ,specially the crown.
You decide

eaglesjl.jpg


eagleq.jpg
 
I find the screw attachment strange also on the GDC Ebay example also, I just haven't seen that attachment before but its probably more stable on the helmet. I attached a couple images of eagle attachment screws. I would imagine you find all types of different attachments, nuts and bolts sense these eagles were used for years and years. The last picture is my example, stamped GK 1908, it sits on a 1915 GKR helmet.

gdcscrew2.jpg

gdcscrew.jpg

gkrscrew.jpg
 
I agree with you about the fittings holding his eagle on the helmet. They are certainly not the norm. But as you know there are many different ways these seem to be fitted from the different periods. The definition of the stamping detail is not any guarantee of originality either. This can be attrocious in later examples. Crown detail can be the same.. even crown sizes vary from very small to rather large.
Stamped or engraved regimental markings are not always seen on helmets or components either but this should not be a worry, there's always Poniatowski , he says he can copy any stamping or engraving, so don't hold back,,if you can afford the 6300 euros reserve!
 
Goodness, what a can of worms I've opened! Love it.
Yeah, my point still is that I'd like to have seen under the cockades for other markings... but then, I'm not bidding on this one, so it doesn't matter. I agree that mountings probably changed so much on these depending on date, manufacture, individuals, etc... and that it's even possible for a fellow from the 6th to have gone to the GdC and vice versa, since they were both garrisoned in Potsdam (a cool town by the way!).
I'm almost 100% positive that my Garde du Corps officer helmet is a converted 6th Kurassier (extra holes under the star) or even a parts helmet. My only consolation is that I traded helmets I didn't want and very little cash for it decades ago. Still, did this person go from the 6th to the GdC? Was it messed with post war? I dunno. It's a nice LOOKING helmet, but that's all I can say about it. So I'm more wary than many about GdC's. (No markings other than the '58' on the cape). I'll try to find a photo to post.

:D Ron
 
Here's my "GdC". You can see that the chin scales are gilt, but are narrow, as from a Pickelhaube and the eagle detail isn't as crisp as it should be. Of course, in the mid-1980's when I acquired this, there was no "Pick's dot com" and there were few really good reference books (the best was Johansen's and that was more of a photo essay... although I loved it!). Certainly none that were good enough to help me really work on verifying this helmet. So, it's one of the 'oh well, it's a bit of a POS, but it looks okay' in the collection and I'll probably keep it that way, unless I find a 6th K officer spike and eagle :) . Like I said, only the shell size, '58' on the helmet, that I recall. I can look into it further later.

JN10149.jpg


:D Ron
 
Yes it's an attractive helmet. The star does seem to be riding higher up on the front than would be normal. So it makes me wonder which holes are being used to house the fixings of the star.
I have often found double holes in officer helmets. BUt I don't think they have been made to change anything. In several cases the 'extra' set of holes seem to be the original generic ones which sit too high to naturally accomodate any of the usual plates.. It's as if they holes were made during manufacture and the plates were then unable to fit, so new holes had to be punched to accomodate the fixing posts on the plate. In these cases it's plain to see the 'extra' holes have never been used.
This helmet you have if 6th cuirassier, judging by it's late looking pattern from the angle seen, would probably have displayed a silver line eagle and not the larger cuirassier eagle Try an officer line eagle and see how it sits in the holes.
I have a magnificent 6th K officer wartime with a silver line eagle. Not the larger kuirassier eagle..It has the extra holes set high up but certainly unused. I don't believe it has ever been anything other than what it is.
 
Thanks, I'll try that when I have it out next. I'd be just as happy if it's a 6th K, because it's my favorite regiment. :)

:D Ron
 
3100 euro for this helmet seems a bargain compared to a similar helmet offered at Weitze for 17.500 euro :-k

https://www.weitze.net/detail/14/Preussen_Helm_fuer_Offiziere_im_Regiment_Garde_du_Corps_bzw_Garde_Kuerassier_Regiment__108714.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards,

Edwin
 
hello,
GDC: in my opinion, the parade eagle is a copy, there is too many holes in the helmet....

BRUNSWICK:
i think the mark is a false one....the plate i don't know....

regards
pppara
 
pppara said:
hello,


BRUNSWICK:
i think the mark is a false one....
Click to expand...

Not easy to say from the bad picture! But what is strange is that the 9 is not aligned with the 2. I cannot remember seeing the same on any other marking. What do you think, Joe?
Bruno
 
To say 'In my opinion' that the eagle is a copy without any explanation only leaves one frustrated.
In my opinion, 'in my opinion' is of no consequence here
 
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