"GENUINE"! "Authentic"! ..... yeah OK
- Thread starter MadMax13
- Start date
istanbulian
Member
I think this helmet features in the following threads on alternative forums:-
http://www.walhalla.se/topic/21917-opinions-on-two-pickelhaubes/
and here:-
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444664
Looks like someone got burned and is now cutting their losses.
Ian
http://www.walhalla.se/topic/21917-opinions-on-two-pickelhaubes/
and here:-
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444664
Looks like someone got burned and is now cutting their losses.
Ian
MadMax13 said:
What parts do you consider as Fake?? The helmet has been discussed al ready and so far every single person has a different opinion..some says is genuine, some other say that the visor has been painted, some others say the chinstrap are fake another says no.....all I can tell you with my limited knowledge (on this type of helmets) is that is certainly not made in India,,,if you can't really see the difference between a real pickelhaube and the ones made in india you are in trouble...
Ok, well I was just joking about the India thing, sorry, but there is a lot of issues I have with this helmet that look off kilter to me. And I'm sure other members will agree. If you take some better pictures with more angles and close ups we could give you a more detailed assessment. Is there any other markings or stamps inside the shell or on the visors? The rear visor looks like a "19 T" brand stamp. Don't think thats a Regiment but I could be wrong. Need to check Joe's data base.
Well first thing I noticed is the over all texture of the outside black lacquer, it looks like someone sanded and repainted, there is not a single craze or crack on the outside shell. The poor stitch work. Front visor looks like a newer replacement with new trim that is too long and doesn't have the proper angle cuts.You can also see the old impressions from where the ft. visor retainer pins used to be. That liner looks like new pigskin leather with its nylon cord. The wappen hole grommets seem too close together,and the two leather retainer pieces don't look right. Wappen looks Ok (would like to see the back though). All the split pin retainers are repros (too thin, too domed). Spine and spike seem ok. Would like to see the them close up. The spine is too long for that size shell, noticed it's wedged under the base plate, causing a bulge and the other end hangs off past the rear visor. The side post lugs seem high. The chin strap hardware shows age, but the leather is in question. (need to see the inside and the stitching) And the cockades seem too new , but again need close ups and the back views to be sure. Thats what I can see from the pics.
At best this is a restoration or parts helmet.
I only started this thread because I felt your auction description was lacking some info. I'm just being honest and not trying to offend.
So Best of luck with your Ebay sale!
Cheers! ~Max
Well first thing I noticed is the over all texture of the outside black lacquer, it looks like someone sanded and repainted, there is not a single craze or crack on the outside shell. The poor stitch work. Front visor looks like a newer replacement with new trim that is too long and doesn't have the proper angle cuts.You can also see the old impressions from where the ft. visor retainer pins used to be. That liner looks like new pigskin leather with its nylon cord. The wappen hole grommets seem too close together,and the two leather retainer pieces don't look right. Wappen looks Ok (would like to see the back though). All the split pin retainers are repros (too thin, too domed). Spine and spike seem ok. Would like to see the them close up. The spine is too long for that size shell, noticed it's wedged under the base plate, causing a bulge and the other end hangs off past the rear visor. The side post lugs seem high. The chin strap hardware shows age, but the leather is in question. (need to see the inside and the stitching) And the cockades seem too new , but again need close ups and the back views to be sure. Thats what I can see from the pics.
At best this is a restoration or parts helmet.
I only started this thread because I felt your auction description was lacking some info. I'm just being honest and not trying to offend.
So Best of luck with your Ebay sale!
Cheers! ~Max
MadMax13 said:
MAX
All the issues you mentioned where alredy identified in the discussion forum helmet is most probably a restored helmet, visor has been repainted (but still original) liner is a replacement ..period done??I dont think so but the way is stitched is really professional. leather is pigskin which is not a very commom leather in the US...I mostly collect WW II steel helmets but all I can tell you is that the helmet is a put together from genuine parts....
poniatowski
Well-known member
To me, and my opinion isn't worth much, even if the front visor is old, it may not be from this helmet originally. Besides, its restoration is poorly done. For one thing, it was hand stitched poorly and at the wrong angle. The front visor trim is also pretty bad. I have some pretty crazy arsenal re-works and they're all unique, but this isn't what I'd call a rework.
Once a restoration of this type is done (I'd say this one was by a collector), it's no longer 'authentic' but restored. I know it's a matter of semantics, but to a neophyte collector, authentic means 100% correct and original as either manufactured or rebuilt by an arsenal.
It seems that Tony was pretty honest with his assessment and concerns, as were the others. I think it's pretty safe to say that most of us have purchased helmets that weren't correct, it's part of the learning curve, but this helmet isn't authentic to me, but restored; for the reasons I've stated.
Again, just my opinion.
Ron
Once a restoration of this type is done (I'd say this one was by a collector), it's no longer 'authentic' but restored. I know it's a matter of semantics, but to a neophyte collector, authentic means 100% correct and original as either manufactured or rebuilt by an arsenal.
It seems that Tony was pretty honest with his assessment and concerns, as were the others. I think it's pretty safe to say that most of us have purchased helmets that weren't correct, it's part of the learning curve, but this helmet isn't authentic to me, but restored; for the reasons I've stated.
Again, just my opinion.
Ron
I agree Ron, And I'm sorry if I seemed harsh... but 'authentic' , 'original' and 'genuine' are not the words I would use to describe this helmet.
Example: If I was selling my fathers 1932 Ford coupe, I wouldn't choose those words to describe it, because it doesn't have factory paint. It has aftermarket interior, new rims, and a crate engine.
But I guess some have different interpretations of definitions... :???:
Example: If I was selling my fathers 1932 Ford coupe, I wouldn't choose those words to describe it, because it doesn't have factory paint. It has aftermarket interior, new rims, and a crate engine.
But I guess some have different interpretations of definitions... :???:
poniatowski
Well-known member
It doesn't seem harsh to me. One thing I like about this forum is that people are honest with each other in their assessments, but don't try to be demeaning in most cases.
Sounds like a cool car!
Ron
Sounds like a cool car!
Ron