German Sergeant & Leutnant Collar Insig & Shoulder S

G

Gamburd

New member
Can anyone tell me more about the following Imperial German and Bavarian Regiment Collar Insignia (Buttons), Collar Decorations, and Shoulder Strap cyphers???


I need the following ranks: Leutnant, Vizefeldwebel, Sergeant, and Musketier (Soldat or Private).


Also, I have not been able to find any good information on WWI Bavarian
uniforms; I know there is a museum in Bavaria, but I checked their website and there was no specific information or interesting pictures.


If you could possibly show me the scale of the Collar Rank buttons, perhaps by using a centimeter ruler, that would be very much appreciated.



I need more uniform information on these Imperial German regiments and uniform information on this Bavarian regiment that were at these battles.


I only need the Sergeant, Vizefeldwebel, and Leutnant and no other variant Sergeant or Leutnant ranks (e.g. Oberleutnant, etc.):



1) Battle of Koekuit (near Langemarck, Belgium), Ypres Salient, October 21, 1914:


A) 26th Reserve Army Corps -- 234 Reserve Infanterie Regiment ("R.I.R.", Hesse-Kassel) of the 101 Reserve Infanterie Brigade of the 51st Reserve Division of the Imperial German 4th Army.

B) 23rd Reserve Jager Battalion (Hanover)




2) Gheluvelt, Ypres Salient, October 31, 1914:


A) XXVII Reserve Corps: 54th Reserve Division, companies of the 244th, 245th, and 246th Regiments (I think these were all Saxon regiments).

B) 6th Bavarian Reserve Division, companies of the 16th (List) Regiment




3) Mouquet Farm, The Somme, August 26th, 1916:


A) 2nd Guard Reserve Regiment of the 1st Guard Reserve Division



The 1st Guard Reserve Division (1. Garde-Reserve-Division) was a reserve infantry division of the Imperial German Army in World War I. It was a reserve formation of the Prussian Guards, the elite regiments raised exclusively throughout the provinces of Prussia and the Imperial Reichsland region of Alsace-Lorraine. The 1st Guard Reserve Division was formed on mobilization in August 1914



B) 7th Company of the 5th Guard Grenadier Regiment of the 4th Guard Division:


The division was formed on May 18, 1915. It was part of a wave of new infantry divisions formed in the spring of 1915. It was a division of the Prussian Guard and hence recruited from all over the Kingdom of Prussia.

The division was formed primarily from the excess infantry regiments of regular infantry divisions which were being triangularized into single Brigades with three core infantry regiments. The division's 5th Guard Infantry Brigade was transferred from the 3rd Guard Infantry Division, and came to the division with the 5th Foot Guards and the 5th Guard Grenadiers.

After formation, the division entered the line north of Przasnysz, Poland, where it remained until July 1915.


For the 2nd Guard Reserve Regiment of the 1st Guard Reserve Division, I am trying to find the Litzen design on their cuff, and any special ornamental collar designs for the Leutnant, Vizefeldwebel, Sergeant, and Private.


I have the Litzen for the the 5th Guard Grenadier Regiment of the 4th Guard Division, but I don't know anything about the collar designs for the Leutnant, Vizefeldwebel, Sergeant, or Private.


5th Guard Grenadier's Shoulder Straps had White piping.



You can also see better the various sleeve cuffs used, including the 5th Guard Grenadier Regiment:






Did the Collar Rank Insignia Buttons have different designs on them depending on the region of Germany the Regiment was from???
 
I assume the Collar Rank Insignia button was worn on the outside of the collar?

It looks like the outside; however I have yet seen a WWI photo showing an NCO wearing the button :???: .



This website has some good information on the WWI German uniforms:

http://home.comcast.net/~jcviser/index.htm/page_10.htm




My understanding from looking at the drawings on the right are that they are displaying how the Private / NCO collar would look say if they were standing in front of you, profile facing right:

http://home.comcast.net/~jcviser/index.htm...ms/ranksnco.htm


Officer Rank Insignia:

The Leutnants would have worn the epaulet, perhaps with some sort of Regimental decoration on it???

http://home.comcast.net/~jcviser/index.htm/uniforms/ranksoffzr.htm



A few reenactor photos; maybe they are wearing the Collar Rank buttons, but I just can't really see them that well:




Sergeant, 1st Guards Corps, 1914 Marching Uniform:




Sergeant, Baden Lieb-Grenadier Regiment No. 109, 1914 Uniform & Early 1915:




The man on the left is a Sergeant, 1st Guards Battalion (it said the other man is dressed as a Stormtrooper (Sturmbattalion 7)) :

 
I haven't had any luck finding any color photos of uniforms or reproduction uniforms.


I know the 6th Bavarian Reserve Division, 16th (List) Regiment was Hitler's WWI regiment; I have seen some photos of Hitler in WWI uniform but he is usually wearing a long coat in the ones I have seen.



Did they wear this large shako type hat, or is this the peace time uniform?


Was the Bavarian WWI uniform much different from the standard Imperial German uniform in color or anything??; I think the Collar button had a rampant lion (?):

The man below looks like he is wearing a Collar Rank button; in the notes accompanying the photo on a website it said he was an Unteroffizier.

But according to that chart above from the Prussian War Machine, the Unteroffizier does not have a Collar Rank button.

Perhaps the person who posted the photos wrongly interpreted his rank??:



Unteroffizier Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment 16, was killed in action 11/18/14.



 
Hello Gamburd,

That's your real name? I assume your questions have to do with 1910 uniforms and after yes?

Then get this book.

Kraus, J. (2004) The German Army in the First World War Verlag Militaria, Vienna

Don't even question the price, just GET IT.

633285949054531250_book.jpg


You can order the English or German version direct from the publisher here: http://www.militaria.at/Default.aspx

Or they show up on ebay all the time.
 
Gamburd said:
// If you could possibly show me the scale of the Collar Rank buttons, perhaps by using a centimeter ruler, that would be very much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Got to this link HERE

Here is the photo directly.

gtp31.jpg


Gamburd said:
// Did the Collar Rank Insignia Buttons have different designs on them depending on the region of Germany the Regiment was from??? //
Click to expand...

Abolutely. The example above is for Preußen, but rank buttons in the same sizes were used with the state Wappens of Sachsen (Saxon), Bayern (Bavaria), Hessen, and Württemberg.
 
Gamburd said:
// I assume the Collar Rank Insignia button was worn on the outside of the collar? It looks like the outside; however I have yet seen a WWI photo showing an NCO wearing the button //
Click to expand...

Yes it was.

ht69.jpg
 
Thanks Tony for the information about the buttons and collars


Hello Gamburd,

That's your real name? I assume your questions have to do with 1910 uniforms and after yes?
Click to expand...

No sir, that is not my real name, it is only a internet moniker.


But I can tell you a little bit about myself. I am very interested in WWI history, and I am doing some volunteer research work to make a WWI video game modification of a WWII PC video game.

The video game is not a commercial venture; everyone who is working on it volunteers their time, and the WWI video game modification will be distributed for free (that is correct: free) for people who own the original WWII PC video game.

We are striving for as much historical accuracy in the WWI video game, and I am not knowledgeable about some of the uniform specifics of the Imperial German Army.


I know about the Brandenburg and Saxon cuffs and the changes that the German uniforms underwent during WWI (Blus, etc.); however, finding information about the Shoulder Strap cyphers and the Bavarian uniforms has been difficult.


I did find Gustaf's post about the M15 Bavarian Mantel:

http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3266


I have a few books, but they pretty much explain the uniforms generally and do not go into any specific detail about the Shoulder Strap cyphers.


I am not a collector of military uniforms, so I am not sure how much use I would get out of the book you recommended for the price I would pay, besides looking up the regiments I mentioned, and some others.


We would very much appreciate any additional information you could please give about the uniforms of the regiments I mentioned above.


Here's our video game forum:

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Iron_Europe/index.php
 
Gamburd said:
// I am not a collector of military uniforms, so I am not sure how much use I would get out of the book you recommended for the price I would pay,//
Click to expand...

That makes sense. Well, how about listing the questions you need answered very clearly, like:

1.

2.

3.

And we'll see what we can do for you. T
 
Gamburd

The fellow you list as B.R.I.R. 16, he is a Landsturm troop, can you blow uo the pic so we can get a better look at the rgimental on the hat cover?

If he wasa Reservist in Bavarian R.I.R. 16 he would be wearing a pickelhaube.
 
George,

I understand your reasoning, but I think in this case. It is
Bavarian RJR16. Kraus in his one volume work shows some examples of early war Bavarian units with such caps. He has some nice examples.
The German Army in the First World War -- 1 volume Kraus

Interestingly I own a copy of the picture.
r2.jpg
 
With regard to the Bavarian soldier, I tried doing some photo editing, and expanded the photos of the Bavarian soldier to twice and triple the size for the one in which he is standing.

However, my photo editing skills are not the greatest, so I hope this helps:

r16UnteroffizierBRIR16kia111814-1.jpg


UnteroffizierBRIR16kia111814Ypre-1.jpg



Does anyone know what the hat the Bavarian soldier is wearing is called??



I also was able to find a little more information about Bavarian uniforms.

I think this link answered a lot of my questions about the Bavarian uniform (scroll down to the center of the page, third and fifth photos down):

http://www.worldwar1.com/sfgeruni.htm





Based on reading this, I would say the Bavarian uniform, at least for privates, was quite similar to the Prussian uniforms, expect for the Bavarian national symbols on the buttons, belt buckle, and cockades.
 
OK, Tony, I am going to try and format some of the questions I have the way you asked:




1) I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding the collar patches, shoulder strap cyphers, and Litzen of the Garde-Grenadier Regiment Nr 5's Field Uniform in 1916 for the following ranks: Leutnant, Vizefeldwebel, Sergeant, and Musketier (Soldat or Private).




2) Does anyone have any information regarding the collar patches, shoulder strap cyphers, and Litzen of the the 2nd Guard Reserve Regiment's Field Uniform of the 1st Guard Reserve Division in 1916 for the following ranks: Leutnant, Vizefeldwebel, Sergeant, and Musketier (Soldat or Private).





Visual information (e.g., photos, actual or historically accurate replica shoulder straps, Litzen, uniform) would be the most helpful.
 
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